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Need slavonic service material   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #23039 of 23584 |
Re: Modern orthography

I forgot to mention that the old orthography is not completely dead. Folks in
the Russian diaspora (especially in ROCOR) have traditionally tried to maintain
the use of the old orthography, whether successfully or not is debatable. As a
personal observation, it's extremely difficult to maintain a strict adherence to
the old orthography in a world that is in constant contact with modern Russia,
and until the past few years we have not even had computer fonts containing all
the necessary characters for typesetting the old orthography. The results of 90
years of using the reformed spelling means that it's almost impossible to hold
onto the old system in today's world, despite our best efforts. In essence, it's
a lost cause, and whatever valiant efforts are made are still "too little, too
late".

It is interesting that a few brave souls are trying to keep the old orthography
alive, even in Russia, as we can see from this web site:
http://nasledie.russportal.ru/
If you really want to know much more about the old vs. new orthographies, see
the articles at this page:
http://www.russportal.ru/index.php?id=oldorth

Nikita

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Nikita Simmons" <starina77@...> wrote:
>
> From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Russian_orthography
>
> "The most recent large reform of the Russian spelling was prepared by Aleksey
Shakhmatov and carried out shortly after the 1917 Revolution. The Russian
orthography was made simpler by unifying several adjectival and pronominal
inflections, replacing the letters &#1123; (Yat) with е, і (depending on the
context of Moscovian pronunciation) and &#1141; with и, &#1139; with ф, and
dropping the archaic mute yer ъ (hard sign) in the terminal position following a
consonant (thus eliminating practically the last graphical remnant of the Old
Slavonic open-syllable system). For instance Рыбинскъ for Рыбинск ("Rybinsk")."
>
> ... a rather simplistic explanation, but accurate. I recommend reading the
whole Wikipedia article to understand the reform in a clearer context. The loss
of the direct historical connection was a linguistic tragedy, but it did make
the goals of public literacy quite a bit more attainable. The spelling rules are
admittedly easier, but it's a rather utilitarian and inelegant system compared
to what we had previously.
>
> Nikita
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Philip Silouan Thompson <himself@> wrote:
> >
> > Nikita Simmons wrote:
> > > ...most texts available on the web are in modern orthography.
> >
> > Besides the obvious cosmetic presentation of the typeface, what is the
> > difference between the old orthography and the modern? I read Serbian
> > badly, Russian and Slavonic *very* minimally, and had assumed the modern
> > Cyrillic orthography was simply an updating of the look of the letters.
> > Is there a more significant difference?
> >
> > Silouan
> >
>





Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:09 pm

starina77
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Message #23039 of 23584 |
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I am in need of the service for the Royal Martyrs in Slavonic. Although our weekend services are primarily in English, we have begun having weekday services...
Fr David Moser
priestdavid
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Jul 10, 2009
3:11 pm

Dear Fr David, If you type the words "служба новомучеников" into a Google search, you will come up with what you need. (In case Yahoo Groups...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 10, 2009
4:40 pm

... Besides the obvious cosmetic presentation of the typeface, what is the difference between the old orthography and the modern? I read Serbian badly, Russian...
Philip Silouan Thompson
silouanthompson
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Jul 10, 2009
4:53 pm

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Russian_orthography "The most recent large reform of the Russian spelling was prepared by Aleksey Shakhmatov and...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 10, 2009
6:43 pm

I forgot to mention that the old orthography is not completely dead. Folks in the Russian diaspora (especially in ROCOR) have traditionally tried to maintain...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 10, 2009
7:09 pm

In addition to the information Nikita supplies about old & new orthography in Russian, there are some further points pertaining to Slavonic. Slavonic became a...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 10, 2009
7:51 pm

Dear Stephen, I would advance one other reason for some use of new orthography in Slavonic texts, and that is to make them accessible to a great many people...
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 10, 2009
10:05 pm

... The new orthography is of little help unless the stresses are indicated. Books without stresses marked consistently are of no use for anyone, except...
Jopi Harri
jopiharri
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Jul 10, 2009
11:13 pm

Father Hermogen, are you not confusing two distinct things? Orthography and letter design are neither the same thing nor necessarily linked together. From the...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 11, 2009
2:23 pm

... And that is why all the new orthography Russian prayer books I've seen mark the stresses. ... Very few. Many of my parishioners have a mental block about...
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 11, 2009
12:52 am

... Dear Father, What I have seen is books that either omit the stresses or have them inconsistently, so that they are left out in every third word or so, or...
Jopi Harri
jopiharri
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Jul 11, 2009
12:06 pm

Ah, but there's the rub: currently new orthography is overwhelmingly the most common way of printing Slavonic in Russia, and, alas, in America. The...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 11, 2009
2:44 pm

... Sorry, that should be the Bulgarians and the Serbs. The Romanians, of course, serve in Romanian....
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 11, 2009
6:02 am

... Most prayer books I have seen only mark the stresses when the stress in Slavonic differs from that in modern Russian. ... Well, that's a different issue...
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 11, 2009
6:24 pm

... I happen to have books in which some of the stresses have been occasionally but not regularly omitted for the following types of words: 1) Words existing...
Jopi Harri
jopiharri
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Jul 11, 2009
7:13 pm

I see nothing here to disagree with. My preferences are really the same: polustav in traditional orthography is best, but civil script in old orthography is...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 11, 2009
9:55 pm

Dear Fr. Hermogen, Would it not be feasible to ask all the Slavonic readers to attend an evening workshop? You could explain the importance of being able to...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 13, 2009
1:47 am
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