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Need slavonic service material   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #23042 of 23584 |
Re: [ustav] Re: Modern orthography

On 11.7.2009 1:05, William Holste wrote:

> I would advance one other reason for some use of new
> orthography in Slavonic texts, and that is to make them
> accessible to a great many people who do not read Slavonic.

The new orthography is of little help unless the stresses are
indicated. Books without stresses marked consistently are of no
use for anyone, except perhaps for someone who is already
proficient in Slavonic.

> How many contemporary Russians would simply choose not to pray
> at all if they had no access to prayer books printed in civil
> script?

Or how many would simply choose to spend a couple of hours to
learn the Slavonic orthography? Heck, it quite isn't Glagolithic.

(Well, my experience is that the ordinary Russian tends to
stammer in reading aloud the Creed in *Russian*, as can happen in
a baptism, for instance. Probably partially because the words are
unfamiliar, and the stresses haven't been indicated. With
Slavonic without stresses the result is plain weird.)

> For that matter, I have found texts of the hours, etc.
> in civil script to be a very useful tool for beginning
> readers, who often need "training wheels," so to speak.

With very little effort the original orthography can be mastered
better than the secularized reduction.

But in practice, when I engrave music with lyrics in Slavonic, I
tend to prefer the classical orthography, and secondarily the
Petrine (= "old") civil orthography (preferably amended with
stresses). This is because if one writes the Slavonic in the
Soviet orthography, the music is accessible to those using the
Russian pronunciation of Slavonic, but hardly to anyone else,
like Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Serbs etc. These peoples exist, really.

- Jopi Harri



Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:09 pm

jopiharri
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Message #23042 of 23584 |
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I am in need of the service for the Royal Martyrs in Slavonic. Although our weekend services are primarily in English, we have begun having weekday services...
Fr David Moser
priestdavid
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Jul 10, 2009
3:11 pm

Dear Fr David, If you type the words "служба новомучеников" into a Google search, you will come up with what you need. (In case Yahoo Groups...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 10, 2009
4:40 pm

... Besides the obvious cosmetic presentation of the typeface, what is the difference between the old orthography and the modern? I read Serbian badly, Russian...
Philip Silouan Thompson
silouanthompson
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Jul 10, 2009
4:53 pm

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reforms_of_Russian_orthography "The most recent large reform of the Russian spelling was prepared by Aleksey Shakhmatov and...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 10, 2009
6:43 pm

I forgot to mention that the old orthography is not completely dead. Folks in the Russian diaspora (especially in ROCOR) have traditionally tried to maintain...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 10, 2009
7:09 pm

In addition to the information Nikita supplies about old & new orthography in Russian, there are some further points pertaining to Slavonic. Slavonic became a...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 10, 2009
7:51 pm

Dear Stephen, I would advance one other reason for some use of new orthography in Slavonic texts, and that is to make them accessible to a great many people...
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 10, 2009
10:05 pm

... The new orthography is of little help unless the stresses are indicated. Books without stresses marked consistently are of no use for anyone, except...
Jopi Harri
jopiharri
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Jul 10, 2009
11:13 pm

Father Hermogen, are you not confusing two distinct things? Orthography and letter design are neither the same thing nor necessarily linked together. From the...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 11, 2009
2:23 pm

... And that is why all the new orthography Russian prayer books I've seen mark the stresses. ... Very few. Many of my parishioners have a mental block about...
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 11, 2009
12:52 am

... Dear Father, What I have seen is books that either omit the stresses or have them inconsistently, so that they are left out in every third word or so, or...
Jopi Harri
jopiharri
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Jul 11, 2009
12:06 pm

Ah, but there's the rub: currently new orthography is overwhelmingly the most common way of printing Slavonic in Russia, and, alas, in America. The...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 11, 2009
2:44 pm

... Sorry, that should be the Bulgarians and the Serbs. The Romanians, of course, serve in Romanian....
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 11, 2009
6:02 am

... Most prayer books I have seen only mark the stresses when the stress in Slavonic differs from that in modern Russian. ... Well, that's a different issue...
William Holste
wholste
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Jul 11, 2009
6:24 pm

... I happen to have books in which some of the stresses have been occasionally but not regularly omitted for the following types of words: 1) Words existing...
Jopi Harri
jopiharri
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Jul 11, 2009
7:13 pm

I see nothing here to disagree with. My preferences are really the same: polustav in traditional orthography is best, but civil script in old orthography is...
stephen_r1937
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Jul 11, 2009
9:55 pm

Dear Fr. Hermogen, Would it not be feasible to ask all the Slavonic readers to attend an evening workshop? You could explain the importance of being able to...
Nikita Simmons
starina77
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Jul 13, 2009
1:47 am
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