Christ is Risen!

Am I having some problems.  I have nore received any e-mails for about
a week form my ustavski group.  Please advise.

Valya

Does anyone know of any biographical information (preferably in English, but
Russian would be better than nothing) on Fr. Sergius V. Bulgakov, author of the
Nastolnaya Kniga?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will be out of the office starting  06/03/2008 and will not return until
06/05/2008.

I will respond to your message when I return.


*********************************************************************
The information in this e-mail is intended solely for the addressee(s)
named, and is confidential. Any other distribution, disclosure or
copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication
in error, please reply by e-mail to the sender and delete or destroy all
copies of this message.

Les renseignements contenus dans le pr'esent message 'electronique sont
confidentiels et concernent exclusivement le(s) destinataire(s)
'esign'e(s). Il est strictement interdit de distribuer ou de copier ce
message.  Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez r'epondre
par courriel `a l'exp'editeur et effacer ou d'etruire toutes les copies du
pr'esent message..

Does anyone have the sheet music for the irmoi of tone 6 in electronic format?


Fr. John Whiteford
St. Jonah Orthodox Church
Parish Home Page:           http://www.saintjonah.org/
ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fr. John Whiteford wrote:

> Does anyone have the sheet music for the irmoi of tone 6 in electronic format?

Here, father:

http://ulmo.mux.net/canon-tone6.pdf

Hope that is what you were looking for! Regards.
--

Rdr. Philip Sokolov

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
<frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have the sheet music for the irmoi of tone 6 in
electronic format?
>

Father:

Also try:http://stephenhowanetz.tripod.com/PDF%20FILES/Vigil%20Mixed%
20PDF/Resurrection%20Canon%20-%20Tone%206%20-%20Lesser%20Znamenny.pdf

Dn. Sergius

Dear all:
I recently saw these pictures of Old Believer bishops vested in phelon:
http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=61cbc72594&img=23737&big=on
http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=850cbcd26e&img=25128&big=on
http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=186181a059&img=24842&big=on
http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=2c8fd466f2&img=6820&big=on
http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=dd3772ec2f&img=25108&big=on
I've also heard that some Greek Catholic and Slavic Orthodox bishops continue to
vest in phelon rather than in sakkos.
When do bishops vest in phelon, and when do they vest in sakkos?
I'd also appreciate if someone can explain the vestments in these pictures,
which seem to differ somewhat from the standard Orthodox vestments. Paging
Nikita Simmons!

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was told a long time ago that the Sakkos was originally the imperial
vestment of the Emperor and that it was after the fall of Constantinople
that the Ecumenical Patriarch adopted the Sakkos and then it spread to
other bishops.

Alban

Antonio Palad wrote:
> Dear all:
> I recently saw these pictures of Old Believer bishops vested in phelon:
> http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=61cbc72594&img=23737&big=on
> http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=850cbcd26e&img=25128&big=on
> http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=186181a059&img=24842&big=on
> http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=2c8fd466f2&img=6820&big=on
> http://all-photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=dd3772ec2f&img=25108&big=on
> I've also heard that some Greek Catholic and Slavic Orthodox bishops continue
to vest in phelon rather than in sakkos.
> When do bishops vest in phelon, and when do they vest in sakkos?
> I'd also appreciate if someone can explain the vestments in these pictures,
which seem to differ somewhat from the standard Orthodox vestments. Paging
Nikita Simmons!
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
> URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
>
> More ustav information and service texts:
> http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
> http://www.orthodox.net/services
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Friends --

It should be known that the russian old-rite bishops are inconsistent here, at
least if  they eschew the sakkos, but keep the (often fur-trimmed) miter.  BTW: 
Since nothing dead may be placed on the Holy Table, might it be supposed that
the old-rite bishops' miters are not placed there?  There are two other
exceptions, but that's another story.

Like the crown (_mitra_) itself, the imperial baggy robe (_sakkos_) was imposed
on the patriarch of Constantinople by the muslim Turks.  As 'Ruler of His
People' (_ethnarkhos_) the bishop of the former roman capital was forced by the
hagarenes to wear the former emperor's vestments rather than just the usual
christian bishop's omophorion over his priestly phelonion.

Once it became known throughout the orthodox christian world that the patriarch
of Constantinople wore the imperial vestments, and since everyone knew that all
bishops are equal, ALL bishops then began to wear the imperial vestments.

It's a good thing that the bishops are returning to the more ancient and
original practice of vesting as priests except for the omophorion.  This is
prescribed for the Divine Liturgy of St James, and I've often seen it apart from
that.  I hope it becomes more common, and that the sakkos and miter find a good
home in the 'dustbins of history'.

Peace and blessings to all.

Monk James

----- Original Message -----
From: Antonio Palad
Date: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:37 am
Subject: [typikon] Phelon for Bishops
To: typikon@yahoogroups.com, Ustav List , Old Rite Yahoo Group

> Dear all:
> I recently saw these pictures of Old Believer bishops vested in
> phelon:http://all-
>
photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=61cbc72594&img=23737&big=onhttp://all-photo.ru\
/temples/index.ru.html?kk=850cbcd26e&img=25128&big=on
> http://all-
>
photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=186181a059&img=24842&big=onhttp://all-photo.ru\
/temples/index.ru.html?kk=2c8fd466f2&img=6820&big=on
> http://all-
> photo.ru/temples/index.ru.html?kk=dd3772ec2f&img=25108&big=onI've also heard
that some Greek Catholic and Slavic Orthodox bishops continue to vest in phelon
rather than in sakkos.
> When do bishops vest in phelon, and when do they vest in sakkos?
> I'd also appreciate if someone can explain the vestments in
> these pictures, which seem to differ somewhat from the standard
> Orthodox vestments. Paging Nikita Simmons!
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In typikon@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...>
wrote:

Dear Fr. James,

--- In typikon@yahoogroups.com, frjsilver@ wrote:


> It should be known that the russian old-rite bishops are
inconsistent here, at least if  they eschew the sakkos, but keep the
(often fur-trimmed) miter.  BTW:  Since nothing dead may be placed on
the Holy Table, might it be supposed that the old-rite bishops'
miters are not placed there?  There are two other exceptions, but
that's another story.

There is no such regulation about anything dead.  For centuries the
animal skin pages of the Gospel Book rested on the Holy Table.

>
> Like the crown (_mitra_) itself, the imperial baggy robe (_sakkos_)
was imposed on the patriarch of Constantinople by the muslim Turks.
As 'Ruler of His People' (_ethnarkhos_) the bishop of the former
roman capital was forced by the hagarenes to wear the former
emperor's vestments rather than just the usual christian bishop's
omophorion over his priestly phelonion.

Father, do you have a reference for this?  Or is it that the
Patriarch appropriated this garment for his use?


> Once it became known throughout the orthodox christian world that
the patriarch of Constantinople wore the imperial vestments, and
since everyone knew that all bishops are equal, ALL bishops then
began to wear the imperial vestments.

I doubt that it was that neatly thought out.
>
> It's a good thing that the bishops are returning to the more
ancient and original practice of vesting as priests except for the
omophorion.  This is prescribed for the Divine Liturgy of St James,
and I've often seen it apart from that.  I hope it becomes more
common, and that the sakkos and miter find a good home in
the 'dustbins of history'.

I don't know that they are doing any returning.  The usual rubrics
all along have been for a hierarch celebrating as a priest & without
assistants to wear the phelon & omophorion.

In XC,
Dn. Sergius

--- End forwarded message ---

Further thoughts: -

The Armoury Museum of the Moscow Kremlin has examples of the episcopal sakkos
dating back before the Turks took Constantinople, at least according to the
labels on the display cases.  Unfortunately I did not take notes as to the exact
dates!

The memorial in Santa Maria Novella, Florence, to Patriarch Joseph II, , who
died there in 1439, shows him vested in a sakkos (the arms are lifted, so you
can see the sleeves) but bare-headed.

Clearly the sakkos and the miter are imperial accoutrements, and as far as I can
see, the former was being worn at least by Patriarchs and some Metropolitans,
prior to the fall of Constantinople.

There is a fashionable opinion, that may have started among some of the emigre
Russian scholars, that several items of modern-day Orthodox ecclesiastical dress
were imposed by the Turks/were in imitation of Turkish practice - I have never
seen any Ottoman firman quoted to that effect (if there is one, please somebody,
let us know!).  As to imitation, do I not recall that Christians were explicitly
forbidden from wearing items of clothing associated with the Muslim ruling
elite?

To this day, in Constantinopolitan use, when several bishops concelebrate,
normally only the presiding hierarch wears the miter (the other wear
Kamelaukion) - this seems to be being whittled away elsewhere.  Similarly, it
appears to have been common until quite recently among Ukrainian Greek Catholics
for bishops to wear the Phelon, and the presiding hierarch alone, the sakkos
(photographs of the 1944 funeral of Metropolitan Andrei Szepticky are a useful
source for this practice).

Igumen Gregory (Woolfenden)


----- Original Message ----
From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...>
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:09:00 AM
Subject: [ustav] Fwd:  Re: Phelon for Bishops


--- In typikon@yahoogroups .com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@ ...>
wrote:

Dear Fr. James,

--- In typikon@yahoogroups .com, frjsilver@ wrote:

> It should be known that the russian old-rite bishops are
inconsistent here, at least if  they eschew the sakkos, but keep the
(often fur-trimmed) miter.  BTW:  Since nothing dead may be placed on
the Holy Table, might it be supposed that the old-rite bishops'
miters are not placed there?  There are two other exceptions, but
that's another story.

There is no such regulation about anything dead.  For centuries the
animal skin pages of the Gospel Book rested on the Holy Table.

>
> Like the crown (_mitra_) itself, the imperial baggy robe (_sakkos_)
was imposed on the patriarch of Constantinople by the muslim Turks.
As 'Ruler of His People' (_ethnarkhos_ ) the bishop of the former
roman capital was forced by the hagarenes to wear the former
emperor's vestments rather than just the usual christian bishop's
omophorion over his priestly phelonion.

Father, do you have a reference for this?  Or is it that the
Patriarch appropriated this garment for his use?

> Once it became known throughout the orthodox christian world that
the patriarch of Constantinople wore the imperial vestments, and
since everyone knew that all bishops are equal, ALL bishops then
began to wear the imperial vestments.

I doubt that it was that neatly thought out.
>
> It's a good thing that the bishops are returning to the more
ancient and original practice of vesting as priests except for the
omophorion.  This is prescribed for the Divine Liturgy of St James,
and I've often seen it apart from that.  I hope it becomes more
common, and that the sakkos and miter find a good home in
the 'dustbins of history'.

I don't know that they are doing any returning.  The usual rubrics
all along have been for a hierarch celebrating as a priest & without
assistants to wear the phelon & omophorion.

In XC,
Dn. Sergius

--- End forwarded message ---



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When the Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Hong Kong celebrated Divine Liturgy in
Metro Manila last month, he wore the kamilavkion, not the mitre. And he was the
only hierarch around, and he was also vested in sakkos. Are there instances when
a bishop doesn't wear the mitre when serving as chief celebrant of the Liturgy?


----- Original Message ----
From: graham woolfenden <monkgreg@...>
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:03:53
Subject: Re: [ustav] Fwd: Re: Phelon for Bishops


Further thoughts: -

The Armoury Museum of the Moscow Kremlin has examples of the episcopal sakkos
dating back before the Turks took Constantinople, at least according to the
labels on the display cases. Unfortunately I did not take notes as to the exact
dates!

The memorial in Santa Maria Novella, Florence, to Patriarch Joseph II, , who
died there in 1439, shows him vested in a sakkos (the arms are lifted, so you
can see the sleeves) but bare-headed.

Clearly the sakkos and the miter are imperial accoutrements, and as far as I can
see, the former was being worn at least by Patriarchs and some Metropolitans,
prior to the fall of Constantinople.

There is a fashionable opinion, that may have started among some of the emigre
Russian scholars, that several items of modern-day Orthodox ecclesiastical dress
were imposed by the Turks/were in imitation of Turkish practice - I have never
seen any Ottoman firman quoted to that effect (if there is one, please somebody,
let us know!). As to imitation, do I not recall that Christians were explicitly
forbidden from wearing items of clothing associated with the Muslim ruling
elite?

To this day, in Constantinopolitan use, when several bishops concelebrate,
normally only the presiding hierarch wears the miter (the other wear
Kamelaukion) - this seems to be being whittled away elsewhere. Similarly, it
appears to have been common until quite recently among Ukrainian Greek Catholics
for bishops to wear the Phelon, and the presiding hierarch alone, the sakkos
(photographs of the 1944 funeral of Metropolitan Andrei Szepticky are a useful
source for this practice).

Igumen Gregory (Woolfenden)

----- Original Message ----
From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@aol. com>
To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:09:00 AM
Subject: [ustav] Fwd: Re: Phelon for Bishops

--- In typikon@yahoogroups .com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@ ...>
wrote:

Dear Fr. James,

--- In typikon@yahoogroups .com, frjsilver@ wrote:

> It should be known that the russian old-rite bishops are
inconsistent here, at least if they eschew the sakkos, but keep the
(often fur-trimmed) miter. BTW: Since nothing dead may be placed on
the Holy Table, might it be supposed that the old-rite bishops'
miters are not placed there? There are two other exceptions, but
that's another story.

There is no such regulation about anything dead. For centuries the
animal skin pages of the Gospel Book rested on the Holy Table.

>
> Like the crown (_mitra_) itself, the imperial baggy robe (_sakkos_)
was imposed on the patriarch of Constantinople by the muslim Turks.
As 'Ruler of His People' (_ethnarkhos_ ) the bishop of the former
roman capital was forced by the hagarenes to wear the former
emperor's vestments rather than just the usual christian bishop's
omophorion over his priestly phelonion.

Father, do you have a reference for this? Or is it that the
Patriarch appropriated this garment for his use?

> Once it became known throughout the orthodox christian world that
the patriarch of Constantinople wore the imperial vestments, and
since everyone knew that all bishops are equal, ALL bishops then
began to wear the imperial vestments.

I doubt that it was that neatly thought out.
>
> It's a good thing that the bishops are returning to the more
ancient and original practice of vesting as priests except for the
omophorion. This is prescribed for the Divine Liturgy of St James,
and I've often seen it apart from that. I hope it becomes more
common, and that the sakkos and miter find a good home in
the 'dustbins of history'.

I don't know that they are doing any returning. The usual rubrics
all along have been for a hierarch celebrating as a priest & without
assistants to wear the phelon & omophorion.

In XC,
Dn. Sergius

--- End forwarded message ---

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Antonio,

Yes, when a miter isn't available.  Please note that there is no
rubric prohibiting the use of the miter when the bishop is wearing
the phelon.

Dn. Sergius


--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Palad <caloypalad@...> wrote:

> When the Greek Orthodox Metropolitan of Hong Kong celebrated Divine
Liturgy in Metro Manila last month, he wore the kamilavkion, not the
mitre. And he was the only hierarch around, and he was also vested in
sakkos. Are there instances when a bishop doesn't wear the mitre when
serving as chief celebrant of the Liturgy?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: graham woolfenden <monkgreg@...>
> To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:03:53
> Subject: Re: [ustav] Fwd: Re: Phelon for Bishops
>
>
> Further thoughts: -
>
> The Armoury Museum of the Moscow Kremlin has examples of the
episcopal sakkos dating back before the Turks took Constantinople, at
least according to the labels on the display cases. Unfortunately I
did not take notes as to the exact dates!
>
> The memorial in Santa Maria Novella, Florence, to Patriarch Joseph
II, , who died there in 1439, shows him vested in a sakkos (the arms
are lifted, so you can see the sleeves) but bare-headed.
>
> Clearly the sakkos and the miter are imperial accoutrements, and as
far as I can see, the former was being worn at least by Patriarchs
and some Metropolitans, prior to the fall of Constantinople.
>
> There is a fashionable opinion, that may have started among some of
the emigre Russian scholars, that several items of modern-day
Orthodox ecclesiastical dress were imposed by the Turks/were in
imitation of Turkish practice - I have never seen any Ottoman firman
quoted to that effect (if there is one, please somebody, let us
know!). As to imitation, do I not recall that Christians were
explicitly forbidden from wearing items of clothing associated with
the Muslim ruling elite?
>
> To this day, in Constantinopolitan use, when several bishops
concelebrate, normally only the presiding hierarch wears the miter
(the other wear Kamelaukion) - this seems to be being whittled away
elsewhere. Similarly, it appears to have been common until quite
recently among Ukrainian Greek Catholics for bishops to wear the
Phelon, and the presiding hierarch alone, the sakkos (photographs of
the 1944 funeral of Metropolitan Andrei Szepticky are a useful source
for this practice).
>
> Igumen Gregory (Woolfenden)
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@aol. com>
> To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:09:00 AM
> Subject: [ustav] Fwd: Re: Phelon for Bishops
>
> --- In typikon@yahoogroups .com, "Dn. Sergius Miller"
<srbmillerr@ ...>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Fr. James,
>
> --- In typikon@yahoogroups .com, frjsilver@ wrote:
>
> > It should be known that the russian old-rite bishops are
> inconsistent here, at least if they eschew the sakkos, but keep the
> (often fur-trimmed) miter. BTW: Since nothing dead may be placed on
> the Holy Table, might it be supposed that the old-rite bishops'
> miters are not placed there? There are two other exceptions, but
> that's another story.
>
> There is no such regulation about anything dead. For centuries the
> animal skin pages of the Gospel Book rested on the Holy Table.
>
> >
> > Like the crown (_mitra_) itself, the imperial baggy robe
(_sakkos_)
> was imposed on the patriarch of Constantinople by the muslim Turks.
> As 'Ruler of His People' (_ethnarkhos_ ) the bishop of the former
> roman capital was forced by the hagarenes to wear the former
> emperor's vestments rather than just the usual christian bishop's
> omophorion over his priestly phelonion.
>
> Father, do you have a reference for this? Or is it that the
> Patriarch appropriated this garment for his use?
>
> > Once it became known throughout the orthodox christian world that
> the patriarch of Constantinople wore the imperial vestments, and
> since everyone knew that all bishops are equal, ALL bishops then
> began to wear the imperial vestments.
>
> I doubt that it was that neatly thought out.
> >
> > It's a good thing that the bishops are returning to the more
> ancient and original practice of vesting as priests except for the
> omophorion. This is prescribed for the Divine Liturgy of St James,
> and I've often seen it apart from that. I hope it becomes more
> common, and that the sakkos and miter find a good home in
> the 'dustbins of history'.
>
> I don't know that they are doing any returning. The usual rubrics
> all along have been for a hierarch celebrating as a priest &
without
> assistants to wear the phelon & omophorion.
>
> In XC,
> Dn. Sergius
>
> --- End forwarded message ---
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dear Group Members,

Please forgive the off-topic post, but I am looking for a volunteer to
translate one troparion into German and/or L�tzebuergesch (Moselfr�nkisch). I
can
supply the text in the  original Greek or an English translation.

Romanos




**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 6/12/08, aplatanao@... <aplatanao@...> wrote:

>  Dear Group Members,
>
>  Please forgive the off-topic post, but I am looking for a volunteer to
>  translate one troparion into German and/or Lëtzebuergesch (Moselfränkisch).
I can
>  supply the text in the  original Greek or an English translation.

[ml]  If you can supply the English, I'll be happy to tackle the German.

In Christ,
Meg Lark

--
Слава Богу за всё!

Does anyone know who composed this text, or if it was ever approved by
a ROCOR Bishop?

http://uk.geocities.com/guildfordian2002/AngloSaxon/ServiceBritishSaints.htm

-Fr. John Whiteford

Here is an obviously related, but different text:

http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm

I would be very interested to hear the history of these texts.  Which
one is the original, or do they both have a common source in a third text?

-Fr. John Whiteford

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
<frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know who composed this text, or if it was ever approved by
> a ROCOR Bishop?
>
>
http://uk.geocities.com/guildfordian2002/AngloSaxon/ServiceBritishSaints.htm
>
> -Fr. John Whiteford
>

With the exception of the Canons at Matins they are both just adaptations of
the service for All Saints of Russia.

Archimandrite Kyril Jenner

http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk



----- Original Message -----
From: "Fr. John Whiteford" <frjohnwhiteford@...>
To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 3:59 AM
Subject: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain Text


> Here is an obviously related, but different text:
>
> http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm
>
> I would be very interested to hear the history of these texts.  Which
> one is the original, or do they both have a common source in a third text?
>
> -Fr. John Whiteford
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
> <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know who composed this text, or if it was ever approved by
>> a ROCOR Bishop?
>>
>>
> http://uk.geocities.com/guildfordian2002/AngloSaxon/ServiceBritishSaints.htm
>>
>> -Fr. John Whiteford
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
> URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
>
> More ustav information and service texts:
> http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
> http://www.orthodox.net/services
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Dear All,

       Chances are excellent that you'll enjoy the  Pochaevskiy Sbornik, a 422
page collection of Divine Liturgy settings  arranged for men's voices.  You can
download it from 
http://files2.regentjob.ru/regentj_files/other_files/pochaevskiy_sbornik.rar  .

       Was glad I was able to put the url into Flashget  (but the first time I
typed "sky" instead of "skiy" and had to do it  over) because I went to bed and
somewhere between 2 and 3 hours later  my "server" hung me up.  So I finished
the job starting at 6 this  morning, while I weeded some Cardamine next to the
Hemerocallis  nana.  Got 100 pages printed so far.  Hope Quill has a paper 
sale.  There are other scores on the http://regentjob.info site.

   Best,

   Don



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
<frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know who composed this text, or if it was ever approved by
> a ROCOR Bishop?


Try asking Fr. Andrew Philips next week in Erie.  I suspect he will be
knowledgeable about the variants of this service, the subject of which
is so near and dear to his heart.

Priest James Baglien

Dear All,

   You might like to download some mp3 tracks from ftp://ftp.predanie.ru/music/ .

   More Lilies and Daylilies opened today.

   Best,

   Don

   PS:  Dear Dr Soini, I think the reason the url I gave failed to  get you there
was because it was split into two lines.  Instead of  clicking it, try typing it
in, and see if that works.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Don.  I enjoyed what I heard and I also forwarded your e-mail
message to a co-worker, our pastor, and our choir director.  I know that
they will also enjoy it.  I'm also downloading the files.

Deacon Michael

appalachian don_hackenberry wrote:
> Dear All,
>
>   You might like to download some mp3 tracks from ftp://ftp.predanie.ru/music/
.
>
>   More Lilies and Daylilies opened today.
>
>   Best,
>
>   Don
>
>   PS:  Dear Dr Soini, I think the reason the url I gave failed to  get you
there was because it was split into two lines.  Instead of  clicking it, try
typing it in, and see if that works.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ===========================  PSALM  ============================
> The Pan-Orthodox Society for the Advancement of Liturgical Music
>                http://www.orthodoxpsalm.org/
> For comments, concerns or questions about this forum, please contact the
moderators at OrthodoxPSALM-owner@yahoogroups.com
> ================================================================
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Deacon Michael Bishop
PO Box 23485
Baltimore MD 21213-5485
http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

See you at the Russian Festival
17-19 October 2008

Fr. John Whiteford's website, http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/, lists as an
alternative for the Sunday two weeks from today (June 23/July 6) a service to
All Saints of Britain.  I didn't know where to find this service, as it does not
appear in the SJKP Menaion.  I found the service on the Orthodox England
website, http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm -- however, the service
there states that it is to be celebrated on the first Sunday of the Fast, rather
than the second.  So, I'm a bit perplexed.  Any comments on this discrepancy? 
The SJKP Liturgical Calendar for 2008 does not mention this service for either
date.

Subdeacon John Dean
Washington, DC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dean" <johnedean@...>
To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:15 AM
Subject: [ustav] All Saints of Britain


> Fr. John Whiteford's website, http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/, lists as an
> alternative for the Sunday two weeks from today (June 23/July 6) a service
> to All Saints of >Britain.  I didn't know where to find this service, as
> it does not appear in the SJKP Menaion.

Why would you expect to find a service to All Saints of Britain in USA
sources?


>I found the service on the Orthodox England website,
>http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm -- however, the service there
>states that it is to be celebrated >on the first Sunday of the Fast, rather
>than the second.  So, I'm a bit perplexed.  Any comments on this
>discrepancy?  The SJKP Liturgical Calendar for 2008 >does not mention this
>service for either date.
>

A "commonsense" understanding of liturgy would indicate that this
commemoration should be on the Second Sunday after Pentecost, in parallel
with (or an alternative to) commemorations of All Saints of Russia, All
Saints of Romania, All Saints of Mount Athos, etc., (i.e. the Sunday
following All Saints is dedicated to the Saints of the nation, and then, if
desired, the next Sunday would be the Saints of the local district).
However, in UK the first Diocese to introduce a commemoration of All Saints
of Britain was the Moscow Patriarchal Diocese of Sourozh, and they did not
want it to compete with the commemoration of All Saints of Russia and so
instituted it on the Third Sunday after Pentecost.   When the Moscow
Patriarchate formally approved this commemoration (last year) they confirmed
the practice of the Diocese in placing it on the Third Sunday.

In my parish (not under Moscow) we will commemorate all the saints of our
various nations together next Sunday.

Archimandrite Kyril Jenner

http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kyril Jenner" <kyril@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dean" <johnedean@...>
> To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:15 AM
> Subject: [ustav] All Saints of Britain
>
>
> > Fr. John Whiteford's website, http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/,
lists as an
> > alternative for the Sunday two weeks from today (June 23/July 6)
a service
> > to All Saints of >Britain.  I didn't know where to find this
service, as
> > it does not appear in the SJKP Menaion.
>
> Why would you expect to find a service to All Saints of Britain in
USA
> sources?
>
>
> >I found the service on the Orthodox England website,
> >http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm -- however, the service
there
> >states that it is to be celebrated >on the first Sunday of the
Fast, rather
> >than the second.  So, I'm a bit perplexed.  Any comments on this
> >discrepancy?  The SJKP Liturgical Calendar for 2008 >does not
mention this
> >service for either date.
> >
>
> A "commonsense" understanding of liturgy would indicate that this
> commemoration should be on the Second Sunday after Pentecost, in
parallel
> with (or an alternative to) commemorations of All Saints of Russia,
All
> Saints of Romania, All Saints of Mount Athos, etc., (i.e. the
Sunday
> following All Saints is dedicated to the Saints of the nation, and
then, if
> desired, the next Sunday would be the Saints of the local
district).
> However, in UK the first Diocese to introduce a commemoration of
All Saints
> of Britain was the Moscow Patriarchal Diocese of Sourozh, and they
did not
> want it to compete with the commemoration of All Saints of Russia
and so
> instituted it on the Third Sunday after Pentecost.   When the
Moscow
> Patriarchate formally approved this commemoration (last year) they
confirmed
> the practice of the Diocese in placing it on the Third Sunday.
>
> In my parish (not under Moscow) we will commemorate all the saints
of our
> various nations together next Sunday.
>
> Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
>
> http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk
>
Thank you for your excellent explanation!

In response to your question:  "Why would you expect to find a
service to All Saints of Britain in USA sources?", perhaps you would
be surprised at this but many of us in the US still consider Britain
as our "mother country", and thus there is a great deal of veneration
for British saints, especially among the Orthodox convert community.
I'm sure this is why Fr. John Whiteford (of Texas) lists this
commemoration as an option.

As Fr. Kyril pointed out, I put this service on the 3rd Sunday after Pentecost
because this is when the MP decided it should be done, and also because I would
not want to replace the service for All Saints of Russia.

The service of All Saints of Russia was not instituted to make this some sort of
Nationalistic flag waving service, but was instituted at the start of the
Bolshevik period to ask especially for the intercession of the Saints of the
Russian land to guide the Russian Church through the trials that were to come. 
Now, it has also the element of thanksgiving for the resurrection of the Russian
Church.

I listed this service as an option.  We have parishes in Britain, Canada, and
Australia in ROCOR, and for those of us who trace our ancestry to the British
Isles (in whole or in part), we do feel a personal connection to these saints.

-Fr. John Whiteford


subdeaconjohndean <johnedean@...> wrote: --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com,
"Kyril Jenner"  wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Dean"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:15 AM
> Subject: [ustav] All Saints of Britain
>
>
> > Fr. John Whiteford's website, http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/,
lists as an
> > alternative for the Sunday two weeks from today (June 23/July 6)
a service
> > to All Saints of >Britain.  I didn't know where to find this
service, as
> > it does not appear in the SJKP Menaion.
>
> Why would you expect to find a service to All Saints of Britain in
USA
> sources?
>
>
> >I found the service on the Orthodox England website,
> >http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm -- however, the service
there
> >states that it is to be celebrated >on the first Sunday of the
Fast, rather
> >than the second.  So, I'm a bit perplexed.  Any comments on this
> >discrepancy?  The SJKP Liturgical Calendar for 2008 >does not
mention this
> >service for either date.
> >
>
> A "commonsense" understanding of liturgy would indicate that this
> commemoration should be on the Second Sunday after Pentecost, in
parallel
> with (or an alternative to) commemorations of All Saints of Russia,
All
> Saints of Romania, All Saints of Mount Athos, etc., (i.e. the
Sunday
> following All Saints is dedicated to the Saints of the nation, and
then, if
> desired, the next Sunday would be the Saints of the local
district).
> However, in UK the first Diocese to introduce a commemoration of
All Saints
> of Britain was the Moscow Patriarchal Diocese of Sourozh, and they
did not
> want it to compete with the commemoration of All Saints of Russia
and so
> instituted it on the Third Sunday after Pentecost.   When the
Moscow
> Patriarchate formally approved this commemoration (last year) they
confirmed
> the practice of the Diocese in placing it on the Third Sunday.
>
> In my parish (not under Moscow) we will commemorate all the saints
of our
> various nations together next Sunday.
>
> Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
>
> http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk
>
Thank you for your excellent explanation!

In response to your question:  "Why would you expect to find a
service to All Saints of Britain in USA sources?", perhaps you would
be surprised at this but many of us in the US still consider Britain
as our "mother country", and thus there is a great deal of veneration
for British saints, especially among the Orthodox convert community.
I'm sure this is why Fr. John Whiteford (of Texas) lists this
commemoration as an option.


------------------------------------


Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
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Fr. John Whiteford
St. Jonah Orthodox Church
Parish Home Page:           http://www.saintjonah.org/
ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why would we in North America not commemorate All Saints of North America on the
2nd Sunday?!

Monk James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fr. John Whiteford"
Date: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

> As Fr. Kyril pointed out, I put this service on the 3rd Sunday
> after Pentecost because this is when the MP decided it should be
> done, and also because I would not want to replace the service
> for All Saints of Russia.
>
> The service of All Saints of Russia was not instituted to make
> this some sort of Nationalistic flag waving service, but was
> instituted at the start of the Bolshevik period to ask
> especially for the intercession of the Saints of the Russian
> land to guide the Russian Church through the trials that were to
> come. Now, it has also the element of thanksgiving for the
> resurrection of the Russian Church.
>
> I listed this service as an option. We have parishes in
> Britain, Canada, and Australia in ROCOR, and for those of us who
> trace our ancestry to the British Isles (in whole or in part),
> we do feel a personal connection to these saints.
>
> -Fr. John Whiteford
>
>
> subdeaconjohndean wrote: --- In
> ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kyril Jenner" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Dean"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:15 AM
> > Subject: [ustav] All Saints of Britain
> >
> >
> > > Fr. John Whiteford's website,
> http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/,
> lists as an
> > > alternative for the Sunday two weeks from today (June
> 23/July 6)
> a service
> > > to All Saints of >Britain. I didn't know where to find this
> service, as
> > > it does not appear in the SJKP Menaion.
> >
> > Why would you expect to find a service to All Saints of
> Britain in
> USA
> > sources?
> >
> >
> > >I found the service on the Orthodox England website,
> > >http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm -- however, the
> service
> there
> > >states that it is to be celebrated >on the first Sunday of
> the
> Fast, rather
> > >than the second. So, I'm a bit perplexed. Any comments on
> this
> > >discrepancy? The SJKP Liturgical Calendar for 2008 >does not
> mention this
> > >service for either date.
> > >
> >
> > A "commonsense" understanding of liturgy would indicate that
> this
> > commemoration should be on the Second Sunday after Pentecost,
> in
> parallel
> > with (or an alternative to) commemorations of All Saints of
> Russia,
> All
> > Saints of Romania, All Saints of Mount Athos, etc., (i.e. the
> Sunday
> > following All Saints is dedicated to the Saints of the nation,
> and
> then, if
> > desired, the next Sunday would be the Saints of the local
> district).
> > However, in UK the first Diocese to introduce a commemoration
> of
> All Saints
> > of Britain was the Moscow Patriarchal Diocese of Sourozh, and
> they
> did not
> > want it to compete with the commemoration of All Saints of
> Russia
> and so
> > instituted it on the Third Sunday after Pentecost. When the
> Moscow
> > Patriarchate formally approved this commemoration (last year)
> they
> confirmed
> > the practice of the Diocese in placing it on the Third Sunday.
> >
> > In my parish (not under Moscow) we will commemorate all the
> saints
> of our
> > various nations together next Sunday.
> >
> > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
> >
> > http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk
> >
> Thank you for your excellent explanation!
>
> In response to your question: "Why would you expect to find a
> service to All Saints of Britain in USA sources?", perhaps you
> would
> be surprised at this but many of us in the US still consider
> Britain
> as our "mother country", and thus there is a great deal of
> veneration
> for British saints, especially among the Orthodox convert
> community.
> I'm sure this is why Fr. John Whiteford (of Texas) lists this
> commemoration as an option.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
> URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
>
> More ustav information and service texts:
> http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
> http://www.orthodox.net/services
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr. John Whiteford
>
> St. Jonah Orthodox Church
> Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
> ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
> Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
> Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For one, our Bishops have appointed that we celebrate all saints of Russia.

   For another, All the saints of America thus far have been saints of the
Russian Church... included St. Raphael Hawaweeny, and so are included in that
celebration.

   -Fr. John Whiteford

frjsilver@... wrote:
   Why would we in North America not commemorate All Saints of North America on
the 2nd Sunday?!

Monk James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fr. John Whiteford"
Date: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:43 am
Subject: Re: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

> As Fr. Kyril pointed out, I put this service on the 3rd Sunday
> after Pentecost because this is when the MP decided it should be
> done, and also because I would not want to replace the service
> for All Saints of Russia.
>
> The service of All Saints of Russia was not instituted to make
> this some sort of Nationalistic flag waving service, but was
> instituted at the start of the Bolshevik period to ask
> especially for the intercession of the Saints of the Russian
> land to guide the Russian Church through the trials that were to
> come. Now, it has also the element of thanksgiving for the
> resurrection of the Russian Church.
>
> I listed this service as an option. We have parishes in
> Britain, Canada, and Australia in ROCOR, and for those of us who
> trace our ancestry to the British Isles (in whole or in part),
> we do feel a personal connection to these saints.
>
> -Fr. John Whiteford
>
>
> subdeaconjohndean wrote: --- In
> ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Kyril Jenner" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Dean"
> > To:
> > Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:15 AM
> > Subject: [ustav] All Saints of Britain
> >
> >
> > > Fr. John Whiteford's website,
> http://www.saintjonah.org/lit/,
> lists as an
> > > alternative for the Sunday two weeks from today (June
> 23/July 6)
> a service
> > > to All Saints of >Britain. I didn't know where to find this
> service, as
> > > it does not appear in the SJKP Menaion.
> >
> > Why would you expect to find a service to All Saints of
> Britain in
> USA
> > sources?
> >
> >
> > >I found the service on the Orthodox England website,
> > >http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/servasob.htm -- however, the
> service
> there
> > >states that it is to be celebrated >on the first Sunday of
> the
> Fast, rather
> > >than the second. So, I'm a bit perplexed. Any comments on
> this
> > >discrepancy? The SJKP Liturgical Calendar for 2008 >does not
> mention this
> > >service for either date.
> > >
> >
> > A "commonsense" understanding of liturgy would indicate that
> this
> > commemoration should be on the Second Sunday after Pentecost,
> in
> parallel
> > with (or an alternative to) commemorations of All Saints of
> Russia,
> All
> > Saints of Romania, All Saints of Mount Athos, etc., (i.e. the
> Sunday
> > following All Saints is dedicated to the Saints of the nation,
> and
> then, if
> > desired, the next Sunday would be the Saints of the local
> district).
> > However, in UK the first Diocese to introduce a commemoration
> of
> All Saints
> > of Britain was the Moscow Patriarchal Diocese of Sourozh, and
> they
> did not
> > want it to compete with the commemoration of All Saints of
> Russia
> and so
> > instituted it on the Third Sunday after Pentecost. When the
> Moscow
> > Patriarchate formally approved this commemoration (last year)
> they
> confirmed
> > the practice of the Diocese in placing it on the Third Sunday.
> >
> > In my parish (not under Moscow) we will commemorate all the
> saints
> of our
> > various nations together next Sunday.
> >
> > Archimandrite Kyril Jenner
> >
> > http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk
> >
> Thank you for your excellent explanation!
>
> In response to your question: "Why would you expect to find a
> service to All Saints of Britain in USA sources?", perhaps you
> would
> be surprised at this but many of us in the US still consider
> Britain
> as our "mother country", and thus there is a great deal of
> veneration
> for British saints, especially among the Orthodox convert
> community.
> I'm sure this is why Fr. John Whiteford (of Texas) lists this
> commemoration as an option.
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
> URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav
>
> More ustav information and service texts:
> http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
> http://www.orthodox.net/services
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fr. John Whiteford
>
> St. Jonah Orthodox Church
> Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
> ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
> Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
> Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------


Post message: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: ustav-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: ustav-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
CONTACT LIST OWNER: ustav-owner@yahoogroups.com
URL to archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ustav

More ustav information and service texts:
http://www.orthodox.net/ustav
http://www.orthodox.net/services
Yahoo! Groups Links






Fr. John Whiteford
St. Jonah Orthodox Church
Parish Home Page:           http://www.saintjonah.org/
ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I notice that the Antiochian Archdiocese in the USA does not serve the
feast of All Saints of America, but SS Peter and Paul along with the
Resurrectional material, they being the patrons of the Patriarchate.

Rdr. James Morgan
Olympia, WA

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
<frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
>
> For one, our Bishops have appointed that we celebrate all saints of
Russia.
>
>   For another, All the saints of America thus far have been saints
of the Russian Church... included St. Raphael Hawaweeny, and so are
included in that celebration.
>
>   -Fr. John Whiteford
>
> frjsilver@... wrote:
>   Why would we in North America not commemorate All Saints of North
America on the 2nd Sunday?!
>
> Monk James
>

How is this to be understood?

In ancient tradition, the only church founded by both Sts Peter and Paul is the
church at Rome, highly respected for its orthodoxy for half the christian
centuries, but now so fallen..

Monk James

----- Original Message -----
From: James Morgan
Date: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:53 pm
Subject: [ustav] Re: All Saints of Britain
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com

> I notice that the Antiochian Archdiocese in the USA does not
> serve the
> feast of All Saints of America, but SS Peter and Paul along with the
> Resurrectional material, they being the patrons of the Patriarchate.
>
> Rdr. James Morgan
> Olympia, WA
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
> wrote:
> >
> > For one, our Bishops have appointed that we celebrate all
> saints of
> Russia.
> >
> > For another, All the saints of America thus far have been saints
> of the Russian Church... included St. Raphael Hawaweeny, and so are
> included in that celebration.
> >
> > -Fr. John Whiteford
> >
> > frjsilver@... wrote:
> > Why would we in North America not commemorate All Saints of North
> America on the 2nd Sunday?!
> >
> > Monk James
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]