Dear All,

Uploaded the 35 concertos in one volume of 414 pages to
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18029515/Bortnyansky-D-S-35-Concertos-Ed-P-Tchaikovsky
.

Best,

Don





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A few years ago, Father John Magramm, (ROCOR), Minneapolis, MN was assigned as a
visiting Priest at Holy Ghost Orthodox Church, Sterling HTs., MI.

In his homily he explained that the Feast actually occured during Holy Week, but
because of the number of services, commemoration of the 1st Eucharist,etc., the
Church moved the Feast to Dormition Fast (keeping it within a lenten period).  I
do not believe there is any reference in the Scriptures as the the "time" the
event took place but there are a couple of subtle references that one might
assume this to be true.

1.  The Gospel reading appointed ends with the following verse:  "Tell the
vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."
Matthew 17:1-9

2. The Kondtakion has, in the middle of the passage, "so that when they would
see thee crucified".....

Father John is the only that has ever provided the guidance that this was the
case; and I ask the forum if in fact there is supporting documentation of the
Church that in fact this was the case.

To those celebrating the Feast today "Happy Feast Day!" (new calendar)
To those awiting the fast and upcoming Feasts, a point to ponder and gain some
clarity.

In Christ...

I read (I believe in Bulgakov, but I can't check now because my copy is in
church) that the Transfiguration occurred on the 40th day before the
Crucifixion. Since it was deemed inappropriate to celebrate such a joyous feast
during the Great Fast (on Monday of the Second Week) it was determined to
celebrate it instead on the 40th day prior to the Exaltation of the Cross as
this latter Feast bears a direct relationship to the Crucifixion.

The fortieth day before September 14th is August 6th. The fact that August 6th
falls during the Dormition Fast is, as I understand it, coincidental.

It is, of course, entirely possible that what I've read is incorrect and Fr.
John's formulation below is the right one. Can anyone offer something
definitive?

Peter

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: gea99_99
   To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:10 AM
     A few years ago, Father John Magramm, (ROCOR), Minneapolis, MN was assigned
as a visiting Priest at Holy Ghost Orthodox Church, Sterling HTs., MI.

   In his homily he explained that the Feast actually occured during Holy Week,
but because of the number of services, commemoration of the 1st Eucharist,etc.,
the Church moved the Feast to Dormition Fast (keeping it within a lenten
period). I do not believe there is any reference in the Scriptures as the the
"time" the event took place but there are a couple of subtle references that one
might assume this to be true.

   1. The Gospel reading appointed ends with the following verse: "Tell the
vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."
   Matthew 17:1-9

   2. The Kondtakion has, in the middle of the passage, "so that when they would
see thee crucified".....

   Father John is the only that has ever provided the guidance that this was the
case; and I ask the forum if in fact there is supporting documentation of the
Church that in fact this was the case.

   To those celebrating the Feast today "Happy Feast Day!" (new calendar)
   To those awiting the fast and upcoming Feasts, a point to ponder and gain some
clarity.

   In Christ...
   .


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 6 August, gea99_99 wrote:

> A few years ago, Father John Magramm, (ROCOR), Minneapolis, MN was
> assigned as a visiting Priest at Holy Ghost Orthodox Church,
> Sterling HTs., MI.
>
> In his homily he explained that the Feast actually occured during
> Holy Week, but because of the number of services, commemoration of
> the 1st Eucharist,etc., the Church moved the Feast to Dormition Fast
> (keeping it within a lenten period). I do not believe there is any
> reference in the Scriptures as the the "time" the event took place
> but there are a couple of subtle references that one might assume
> this to be true.
>
> 1. The Gospel reading appointed ends with the following verse: "Tell
> the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."
> Matthew 17:1-9
>
> 2. The Kondtakion has, in the middle of the passage, "so that when
> they would see thee crucified".....
>
> Father John is the only that has ever provided the guidance that
> this was the case; and I ask the forum if in fact there is
> supporting documentation of the Church that in fact this was the case.
>
> To those celebrating the Feast today "Happy Feast Day!" (new calendar)
> To those awiting the fast and upcoming Feasts, a point to ponder and
> gain some clarity.


The standard Russia source, "Reference Book for Clergy," by Bulgakov,
states the following:

"The Transfiguration of the Lord was in February, and not in August,
as it is celebrated in our Orthodox Church. The Church of Christ
transferred this feast from February to the month of August because,
without transferral to another month, the solemn feast of the
Transfiguration of the Lord would occur during the days of the Holy
Quadragesima, which would be incompatible with the Lenten services and
the sad time of fasting and repentance, which represents the present
life of much misfortune, whereas the feast of the Transfiguration of
the Lord portends the future age. The Transfiguration of the Lord is
celebrated on the sixth of August, and not at any other time, because
on 14 September the Exaltation of the Cross of the Lord is celebrated,
at which the celebration and commemoration of the Passion of Christ is
performed a second time; and since the Transfiguration was 40 days
before the Crucifixion of the Savior, the Holy Fathers, counting back
forty days from the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross of the Lord,
established that on 6 August, the Transfiguraiton of the Lord should
be celebrated, for from 14 September to 6 August is exactly 40 days."

The original source of the above text was the Russian publication,
"Guidance for Village Pastors," 1893, 11.

Daniel Olson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At what point did the blessing of the grapes (which is lot like the
Jewish feast of Succoth which also happens in the early fall) become
part of the traditional celebration of Transfiguration?   Why did Peter
offer to make tabernacles for Jesus, Moses and Elijah?

Theodora



>  The Transfiguration of the Lord is
> celebrated on the sixth of August, and not at any other time, because
> on 14 September the Exaltation of the Cross of the Lord is celebrated,
> at which the celebration and commemoration of the Passion of Christ is
> performed a second time; and since the Transfiguration was 40 days
> before the Crucifixion of the Savior, the Holy Fathers, counting back
> forty days from the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross of the Lord,
> established that on 6 August, the Transfiguraiton of the Lord should
> be celebrated, for from 14 September to 6 August is exactly 40 days."
>
> The original source of the above text was the Russian publication,
> "Guidance for Village Pastors," 1893, 11.
>
> Daniel Olson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

While the NT does not say that the Transfiguration took place forty days before
the Crucifixion, it does give enough information to make the quadrigesimal
tradition reasonable. In St Mark,the movements of our Lord and his company are
described: the Passion is foretold (8:31-38) six days before the Transfiguration
(9:2-8); "they went on from there and passed through Galilee" (9:30); the
Passion is foretold again (9:30-32); "then they came to Capernaum" (9:33); they
"left that place and went to the region of Judea and beyond the Jordan" (10:1);
"they were on the road going up to Jerusalem" (10:32); the Passion is foretold a
third time (10:32-34); "they came to Jericho" (10:41); they approached Jerusalem
11:1) and the Palm Sunday narrative begins.

Similarly in Matthew the Passion is foretold (16:21) six days before the
Transfiguration (17:1-8); the Passion is foretold a second time, in Galilee
(17:22-23); they go to Capernaum (17:24), leave Galilee and go to transjordan
Judea (19:1); on the way up to Jerusalem the Passion is foretold a third time
(20:17-19); they pass through Jericho (20:29) and the Palm Sunday narrative
follows.

And in Luke the Passion is foretold (9:22-27); "about eight days after" the
Transfiguration occurs (9:2-36); the Passion is foretold a second time
(9:43-45); they go "on the way to Jerusalem, . . . through the region between
Samaria and Galilee" (17:11); the Passion is foretold a third time (18:31-34);
they pass through Jericho (19:1) and thence to the outskirts of Jerusalem, where
the Palm Sunday narrative begins (19:28-29).

The journey thus described here is not by a direct route. Luke descrbes more
teaching and incident between the Transfiguration and the Passion than Matthew,
and Matthew more than Mark. That forty days elapsed is quite reasonable.

The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful relation
to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been faced by
others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the last Sunday
after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the Transfiguration
in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity for preaching and
teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on this list will
know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans but suppressed
among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.

Stephen


--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Olson <danielolson@...> wrote:
>
> On 6 August, gea99_99 wrote:
>
> > A few years ago, Father John Magramm, (ROCOR), Minneapolis, MN was
> > assigned as a visiting Priest at Holy Ghost Orthodox Church,
> > Sterling HTs., MI.
> >
> > In his homily he explained that the Feast actually occured during
> > Holy Week, but because of the number of services, commemoration of
> > the 1st Eucharist,etc., the Church moved the Feast to Dormition Fast
> > (keeping it within a lenten period). I do not believe there is any
> > reference in the Scriptures as the the "time" the event took place
> > but there are a couple of subtle references that one might assume
> > this to be true.
> >
> > 1. The Gospel reading appointed ends with the following verse: "Tell
> > the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead."
> > Matthew 17:1-9
> >
> > 2. The Kondtakion has, in the middle of the passage, "so that when
> > they would see thee crucified".....
> >
> > Father John is the only that has ever provided the guidance that
> > this was the case; and I ask the forum if in fact there is
> > supporting documentation of the Church that in fact this was the case.
> >
> > To those celebrating the Feast today "Happy Feast Day!" (new calendar)
> > To those awiting the fast and upcoming Feasts, a point to ponder and
> > gain some clarity.
>
>
> The standard Russia source, "Reference Book for Clergy," by Bulgakov,
> states the following:
>
> "The Transfiguration of the Lord was in February, and not in August,
> as it is celebrated in our Orthodox Church. The Church of Christ
> transferred this feast from February to the month of August because,
> without transferral to another month, the solemn feast of the
> Transfiguration of the Lord would occur during the days of the Holy
> Quadragesima, which would be incompatible with the Lenten services and
> the sad time of fasting and repentance, which represents the present
> life of much misfortune, whereas the feast of the Transfiguration of
> the Lord portends the future age. The Transfiguration of the Lord is
> celebrated on the sixth of August, and not at any other time, because
> on 14 September the Exaltation of the Cross of the Lord is celebrated,
> at which the celebration and commemoration of the Passion of Christ is
> performed a second time; and since the Transfiguration was 40 days
> before the Crucifixion of the Savior, the Holy Fathers, counting back
> forty days from the feast of the Exaltation of the Cross of the Lord,
> established that on 6 August, the Transfiguraiton of the Lord should
> be celebrated, for from 14 September to 6 August is exactly 40 days."
>
> The original source of the above text was the Russian publication,
> "Guidance for Village Pastors," 1893, 11.
>
> Daniel Olson
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the pre-Lent
Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday after
Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.

This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran Clergyman
and convert to the Orthodox Faith.

Dale
 

--- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:


The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful relation
to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been faced by
others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the last Sunday
after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the Transfiguration
in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity for preaching and
teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on this list will
know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans but suppressed
among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.

Stephen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would like to request all to keep Archimandrite Ioasaph in their
prayers.  He has been diagnosed with a rare and at this point
incurable form of cancer.

The SJKP Liturgical Calendar specifies: "Although the Typicon
prescribes a six-stichera service, in common practice a polyeleos-rank
service is performed to Great-Martyr Panteleimon (§1D) [GIVEN HERE]
(thus is the Menaion written).  Or, if the rector so direct, a
polyeleos-rank service to the Synaxis of the Enlighteners of the Slavs
[NOT given here].  The polyeleos-rank service to Great-Martyr
Panteleimon is transferred to the nearest day convenient."

The order for Troparia and Kontakia is for a Temple dedicated to a
Saint. If your temple is dedicated to the Lord or to the Theotokos,
please make the appropriate adjustments.

If you have corrections, please be sure to click "Reply to All" to
ensure that all on the Choir Cues list receive the corrections in a
timely fashion. However, please note that translations are from other
sources, and are not my own. The Pericopes for the Epistle and Gospel
are now a standard feature, indicated by the sign §, followed by a
number.

Thanks to Father John Whiteford and Father John McCuen, as always, for
the materials they put together. I could not undertake this effort
without their help.

In Christ,
Margaret Lark



27 July/9 August 2009
NINTH SUNDAY AFTER PENTECOST - Tone 8

Epistle: 1 Corinthians §128 (3:9-17) AND 2 Timothy §292 (2:1-10)
Gospel: Matthew §59 (14:22-34) AND John §52 (15:17-16:2)

Holy Great-Martyr and Healer Panteleimon.  Synaxis of the Holy
Enlighteners of the Slavs and Bulgars:  Equals of the Apostles
Methodius and Cyril, and their disciples:  Clement of Ochrida, Bishop
of Greater Macedonia, and Angelarius, Gorazd, Nahum, and Sabbbas.  St.
Anthusa, Abbess of Mantinea in Asia Minor.  Blessed Nicholas Kochanov,
fool-for-Christ at Novgorod.  St. Ioasaph, Metropolitan of Moscow.
New-Martyr Christodulus.  Greek Calendar:  The blind man who confessed
Christ and was martyred with St. Panteleimon.  853 Martyrs of Thrace
who were drowned.  St. Manuel, monk.


HOURS


Third Hour:


Resurrectional Troparion
Glory...
Troparion of St. Panteleimon
Both now...
Theotokion from the Horologion
Resurrectional Kontakion



Sixth Hour:


Resurrectional Troparion
Glory...
Troparion of St. Panteleimon
Both now...
Theotokion from the Horologion
Kontakion of St. Panteleimon


DIVINE LITURGY OF ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM



Third Antiphon (Beatitudes)
6 from the Octoechos; 4 from Ode 3 of the Canon of the Saint


1.  Remember us, O Christ, Thou Savior of the world, as Thou didst
remember the thief upon the Cross; and account us all worthy of Thy
heavenly kingdom, O Thou Who alone art compassionate.



2.  Hearken, O Adam, and rejoice with Eve; for he who of old stripped
you both naked, and by deception hath taken all of us captive, hath
been set at nought by the Cross of Christ.



3.  Nailed of Thine own will to the Tree, O our Savior, Thou didst
deliver Adam from the curse which came through the tree, and hast
rewarded that which is in Thine image with a dwelling in paradise, in
that Thou art compassionate.



4.  Today is Christ risen from the tomb, granting incorruption unto
all the faithful; and He reneweth the joy of the myrrh-bearing women
after His suffering and resurrection.



5.  Rejoice, O wise myrrh-bearing women, who were first to behold the
resurrection of Christ, and who proclaimed to the apostles the glad
tidings of the restoration of the whole world!



6.  O ye apostles, who are manifestly the friends of Christ and are to
be enthroned with Him in glory: entreat Him with boldness, that He
intercede for us, for ye are His disciples.



7.  Hearkening to the words of the Spirit, thou didst become like good
and fertile land, receiving the precious Seed and giving rise to
salvation of souls, O thrice-blessed one.



8.  Having been reborn in manner divinely inspired, thou didst slay
the arrogance of the serpent’s sting and didst restore a soul to life;
and thou standest before the King of all.



9.  Loving the piety of thy mother, O glorious one, thou didst despise
the greatly vexatious godlessness of thy father; for, possessed of
reason, thou didst choose that which is better.



10.  The Lord, Who holdeth all creation in His divine hand, is borne
on thine arm, O Virgin.  Him do thou now entreat, that He deliver from
misfortunes those who hymn thee.



TROPARIA AND KONTAKIA



Resurrectional Troparion, Tone 8:  From on high didst Thou descend, O
compassionate One; / to burial of three days hast Thou submitted /
that Thou mightest free us from our passions. // O our Life and
Resurrection, O Lord, glory be to Thee.



[Troparion of the Temple]



Troparion of St. Panteleimon, Tone 3: O holy passion-bearer and healer
Panteleimon, / intercede with the merciful God // that He grant unto
our souls forgiveness of offences.



Resurrectional Kontakion, Tone 8:  Having risen from the tomb, Thou
didst raise up the dead and didst resurrect Adam. / Eve also danceth
at Thy Resurrection, // and the ends of the world celebrate Thine
arising from the dead, O Greatly-merciful one.



[Kontakion of the Temple]



Glory…



Kontakion of St. Panteleimon, Tone 5:  As an imitator of the Merciful
One, / and as one who received from Him the grace of healing, / O
passion-bearer and martyr of Christ our God, / by thy prayers heal the
diseases of our souls, / and ever banish the snares of the enemy from
them that cry with faith: // Save us, O Lord.



Both now...

Theotokion, Tone 6. O protection of Christians that cannot be put to
shame, / O mediation unto the creator unfailing, / disdain not the
suppliant voices of sinners, / but be thou quick, O good one, to help
us who in faith cry unto thee; / hasten to intercession and speed thou
to make supplication, // thou who dost ever protect, O Theotokos, them
that honor thee.





EPISTLE


Reader: The Prokimenon in the 8th Tone:  Make your vows and pay them
to the Lord our God.
Choir: Make your vows and pay them to the Lord our God.
Reader:  In Judea is God known, His name is great in Israel.
Choir:  Make your vows and pay them to the Lord our God.
Reader:  The Prokimenon in the 4th Tone: Wondrous is God in His
saints, the God of Israel.
Choir:  Wondrous is God in His saints, the God of Israel.



Reader: The Reading is from the First Epistle of the Holy Apostle Paul
to the Corinthians.

[I Corinthians 3:9-17 (§128)]:  Brethren:  We are labourers together
with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. *
  According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise
masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth
thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. * For
other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus
Christ. *  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; *  Every man's work shall be made
manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed
by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. *
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall
receive a reward. *  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall
suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. * Know
ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God
dwelleth in you? * If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God
destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

[II Timothy 2:1-10 (§292)]:  Timothy, my son:  be strong in the grace
that is in Christ Jesus. * And the things that thou hast heard of me
among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall
be able to teach others also. * Thou therefore endure hardness, as a
good soldier of Jesus Christ. * No man that warreth entangleth himself
with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen
him to be a soldier. * And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is
he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. * The husbandman that
laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. * Consider what I say;
and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. * Remember that
Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according
to my gospel: * Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto
bonds; but the word of God is not bound. * Therefore I endure all
things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation
which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.



Priest:  Peace be to him that readeth.



ALLELUIA (NO PAUSE before first verse)

Reader: Alleluia in the 8th Tone: Come let us rejoice in the Lord, let
us shout with jubilation unto God our Savior.
Choir: Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!
Reader:  Let us come before His countenance with thanksgiving, and
with psalms let us shout in jubilation unto Him.
Choir: Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!
Reader: In the 4thTone: The righteous man shall flourish like a palm
tree, and like a cedar in Lebanon shall he be multiplied.
Choir: Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!



GOSPEL


[Matthew 14:22-34 (§59)]:  At that time, Jesus constrained his
disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other
side, while he sent the multitudes away. * And when he had sent the
multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when
the evening was come, he was there alone. * But the ship was now in
the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. *
And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on
the sea. * And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they
were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. *
But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is
I; be not afraid. * And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be
thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. * And he said, Come. And
when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to
go to Jesus. * But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and
beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. * And immediately
Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O
thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? * And when they were
come into the ship, the wind ceased. * Then they that were in the ship
came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. *
And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.



[John 15:17-16:2 (§52)]:  The Lord said to His disciples:  These
things I command you, that ye love one another. * If the world hate
you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. * If ye were of the
world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the
world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world
hateth you. * Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is
not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also
persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
* But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake,
because they know not him that sent me. * If I had not come and spoken
unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their
sin. * He that hateth me hateth my Father also. * If I had not done
among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin:
but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. * But
this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written
in their law, They hated me without a cause. * But when the Comforter
is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of
truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: * And
ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the
beginning. * These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not
be offended. * They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time
cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God
service.



Communion Verse:  Praise the Lord in the heavens, praise Him in the
highest! In everlasting remembrance shall the righteous be; he shall
not be afraid of evil tidings.  Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!

I read the DAILY READINGS from the Greek Orthodox Church in North America
and they include an English translation of the synaxarion. For this feast they
write
(amongst other things):

According to tradition, the Lord's Transfiguration came to pass forty days
before His Crucifixion;
this is why the Transfiguration is celebrated forty days before the Exaltation
of the Cross.

No doubt, Bulgakov was citing this.

So the question remains: what is the source of this tradition?



John







________________________________
From: ustav@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Dickerson
Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 3:48 AM
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??



Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the pre-Lent
Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday after
Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.

This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran Clergyman
and convert to the Orthodox Faith.

Dale


--- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937
<stephen_r1937@...<mailto:stephen_r1937%40yahoo.com>> wrote:

The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful relation
to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been faced by
others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the last Sunday
after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the Transfiguration
in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity for preaching and
teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on this list will
know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans but suppressed
among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.

Stephen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you want to read a western history of the the Feast of the Transfiguration,
here is a link in google books. It does note the Orthodox tradition of 40 days.
Over the years, I have found this series helpful, but very pro Roman and post
Vatican II. The book gives no exact source. If one is known it is provided.
Example: Page 99, Egeria is a source the dating of  September 13 for the Feast
of the Cross in 335 AD.
 
The 40 day tradition played a part in the organic development of the
liturgical calendar in the wake of the "Peace of Constantine". I have not read
in pre Constantine works of the Fathers anything about this tradition. So I
assume it was oral or the writing was lost. In any case, the source is early in
Church history.
 
Dale Dickerson
 
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, John van der Hoek <john.vanderhoek@...> wrote:


From: John van der Hoek <john.vanderhoek@...>
Subject: RE: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??
To: "'ustav@yahoogroups.com'" <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:36 PM


 



I read the DAILY READINGS from the Greek Orthodox Church in North America
and they include an English translation of the synaxarion. For this feast they
write
(amongst other things):

According to tradition, the Lord's Transfiguration came to pass forty days
before His Crucifixion;
this is why the Transfiguration is celebrated forty days before the Exaltation
of the Cross.

No doubt, Bulgakov was citing this.

So the question remains: what is the source of this tradition?

John

____________ _________ _________ __
From: ustav@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ustav@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dale
Dickerson
Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 3:48 AM
To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration- Chronologically. ..when did the event
take place??

Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the pre-Lent
Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday after
Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.

This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran Clergyman
and convert to the Orthodox Faith.

Dale

--- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ yahoo.com<mailto:stephen_
r1937%40yahoo. com>> wrote:

The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful relation
to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been faced by
others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the last Sunday
after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the Transfiguration
in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity for preaching and
teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on this list will
know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans but suppressed
among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.

Stephen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry I forgot to paste the link.
http://www.google.com/books?id=DWdk0AZlzZIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=transfigurati\
on+of+jesus+litugical+history&lr=&source=gbs_similarbooks_s&cad=1#v=onepage&q=le\
nt&f=false

Dale Dickerson
 

--- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@...> wrote:


From: Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@...>
Subject: RE: [ustav] Re:Transfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event
take place??
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 3:51 AM


 



If you want to read a western history of the the Feast of the Transfiguration,
here is a link in google books. It does note the Orthodox tradition of 40 days.
Over the years, I have found this series helpful, but very pro Roman and post
Vatican II. The book gives no exact source. If one is known it is provided.
Example: Page 99, Egeria is a source the dating of  September 13 for the Feast
of the Cross in 335 AD.
 
The 40 day tradition played a part in the organic development of the
liturgical calendar  in the wake of the "Peace of Constantine" . I have not read
in pre Constantine works of the Fathers anything about this tradition. So I
assume it was oral or the writing was lost. In any case, the source is early in
Church history.
 
Dale Dickerson
 
--- On Thu, 8/6/09, John van der Hoek <john.vanderhoek@ unisa.edu. au> wrote:

From: John van der Hoek <john.vanderhoek@ unisa.edu. au>
Subject: RE: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration- Chronologically. ..when did the event
take place??
To: "'ustav@yahoogroups. com'" <ustav@yahoogroups. com>
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 9:36 PM

 

I read the DAILY READINGS from the Greek Orthodox Church in North America
and they include an English translation of the synaxarion. For this feast they
write
(amongst other things):

According to tradition, the Lord's Transfiguration came to pass forty days
before His Crucifixion;
this is why the Transfiguration is celebrated forty days before the Exaltation
of the Cross.

No doubt, Bulgakov was citing this.

So the question remains: what is the source of this tradition?

John

____________ _________ _________ __
From: ustav@yahoogroups. com [mailto:ustav@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Dale
Dickerson
Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 3:48 AM
To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration- Chronologically. ..when did the event
take place??

Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the pre-Lent
Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday after
Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.

This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran Clergyman
and convert to the Orthodox Faith.

Dale

--- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ yahoo.com<mailto: stephen_
r1937%40yahoo. com>> wrote:

The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful relation
to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been faced by
others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the last Sunday
after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the Transfiguration
in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity for preaching and
teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on this list will
know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans but suppressed
among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.

Stephen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Dale,
>
> Not quite.  The usage chronology is as follows:
>
> 1. The August date was NOT universal in the West until the late 15th century
> 2. For centuries the Roman & some north European lectionaries used the Gospel
of the Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent
> 3. Many of the 16th century Lutheran agendae put the Transfiguration on the
last Sun. after Epiphany as Stephen has said (see Common Service Book & Hymnal,
1918)
> 4. The Service Book & Hymnal of the Mid-Fifties ADDED the Augus 6th date
> 5. The Lutheran Book of Worship eliminated the pre-Lent Sundays but left the
Transfiguration on the last Sun. after Epiphany which now comes the Sun. before
Ash Wednesday.
>
>
> Dn. Sergius
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@> wrote:
> >
> > Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the
pre-Lent Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday
after Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.
> >
> > This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran
Clergyman and convert to the Orthodox Faith.
> >
> > Dale
> >  
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful
relation to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been
faced by others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the
last Sunday after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the
Transfiguration in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity
for preaching and teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on
this list will know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans
but suppressed among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Dn Sergius,
 
The Service Book and Hymnal uses the propers of The Transfiguration of Our
Lord on the sixth Sunday after Epiphany. Most years have less Sundays after
Epiphany, the last Sunday is does not always use this set of propers. So it is a
rare year that had Transfiguration just before Septuagesima Sunday.
 
My copies of earlier Lutheran litugical books are in storage and I could not
check those. I did check Frank Senn's Christian Liturgy, p343. The propers  were
used from Reformation times as the six Sunday after Epiphany. 
 
I do not know if any made Transfiguration always the last Sunday after Epiphany
before the LBW.
 
Dale Dickerson

--- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:


From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...>
Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:40 AM


 




Dear Dale,

Not quite. The usage chronology is as follows:

1. The August date was universal in the West until the late 15th century
2. For centuries the Roman & some north European lectionaries used the Gospel of
the Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent
3. Many of the 16th century Lutheran agendae put the Transfiguration on the last
Sun. after Epiphany as Stephen has said (see Common Service Book & Hymnal, 1918)
4. The Service Book & Hymnal of the Mid-Fifties ADDED the Augus 6th date
5. The Lutheran Book of Worship eliminated the pre-Lent Sundays but left the
Transfiguration on the last Sun. after Epiphany which now comes the Sun. before
Ash Wednesday.

Dn. Sergius

--- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
>
> Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the
pre-Lent Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday
after Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.
>
> This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran
Clergyman and convert to the Orthodox Faith.
>
> Dale
>  
>
> --- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful
relation to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been
faced by others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the
last Sunday after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the
Transfiguration in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity
for preaching and teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on
this list will know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans
but suppressed among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Dale,

Not quite.  The SBH says that the propers of the Transfiguration may always be
used on the last Sun. after Epiphany except when there is but one Sun. after
Epiphany.

The Common Service says that it is always to be used on the Last Sun. & there is
no 6 Aug. feast

Rome still has the Transfiguration on 6 Aug. but also reads the Gosepl of the
Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent.

Fr. Dn. Sergius



--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@...> wrote:
>
> Dn Sergius,
>  
> The Service Book and Hymnal uses the propers of The Transfiguration of Our
Lord on the sixth Sunday after Epiphany. Most years have less Sundays after
Epiphany, the last Sunday is does not always use this set of propers. So it is a
rare year that had Transfiguration just before Septuagesima Sunday.
>  
> My copies of earlier Lutheran litugical books are in storage and I could not
check those. I did check Frank Senn's Christian Liturgy, p343. The propers  were
used from Reformation times as the six Sunday after Epiphany. 
>  
> I do not know if any made Transfiguration always the last Sunday after
Epiphany before the LBW.
>  
> Dale Dickerson
>
> --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...>
> Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??
> To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:40 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dale,
>
> Not quite. The usage chronology is as follows:
>
> 1. The August date was universal in the West until the late 15th century
> 2. For centuries the Roman & some north European lectionaries used the Gospel
of the Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent
> 3. Many of the 16th century Lutheran agendae put the Transfiguration on the
last Sun. after Epiphany as Stephen has said (see Common Service Book & Hymnal,
1918)
> 4. The Service Book & Hymnal of the Mid-Fifties ADDED the Augus 6th date
> 5. The Lutheran Book of Worship eliminated the pre-Lent Sundays but left the
Transfiguration on the last Sun. after Epiphany which now comes the Sun. before
Ash Wednesday.
>
> Dn. Sergius
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the
pre-Lent Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday
after Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.
> >
> > This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran
Clergyman and convert to the Orthodox Faith.
> >
> > Dale
> >  
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful
relation to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been
faced by others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the
last Sunday after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the
Transfiguration in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity
for preaching and teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on
this list will know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans
but suppressed among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dn Sergius
 
In the SBH. the proper use is may but does not say always.  As a I grew up, I do
not remember it used on the last Sunday.
 
I assume Dr. Reed pushed for August 6. Since after his death the LBW removed it.
 
The reality in Lutheranism is you have the liturgy with the prospers, but the
Minister is always at liberty to make changesand not follow it.
 
Dale

--- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:


From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...>
Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:23 AM


 





Dear Dale,

Not quite. The SBH says that the propers of the Transfiguration may always be
used on the last Sun. after Epiphany except when there is but one Sun. after
Epiphany.

The Common Service says that it is always to be used on the Last Sun. & there is
no 6 Aug. feast

Rome still has the Transfiguration on 6 Aug. but also reads the Gosepl of the
Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent.

Fr. Dn. Sergius

--- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
>
> Dn Sergius,
>  
> The Service Book and Hymnal uses the propers of The Transfiguration of Our
Lord on the sixth Sunday after Epiphany. Most years have less Sundays after
Epiphany, the last Sunday is does not always use this set of propers. So it is a
rare year that had Transfiguration just before Septuagesima Sunday.
>  
> My copies of earlier Lutheran litugical books are in storage and I could not
check those. I did check Frank Senn's Christian Liturgy, p343. The propers  were
used from Reformation times as the six Sunday after Epiphany. 
>  
> I do not know if any made Transfiguration always the last Sunday after
Epiphany before the LBW.
>  
> Dale Dickerson
>
> --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@ ...>
> Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration- Chronologically. ..when did the event take
place??
> To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:40 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dale,
>
> Not quite. The usage chronology is as follows:
>
> 1. The August date was universal in the West until the late 15th century
> 2. For centuries the Roman & some north European lectionaries used the Gospel
of the Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent
> 3. Many of the 16th century Lutheran agendae put the Transfiguration on the
last Sun. after Epiphany as Stephen has said (see Common Service Book & Hymnal,
1918)
> 4. The Service Book & Hymnal of the Mid-Fifties ADDED the Augus 6th date
> 5. The Lutheran Book of Worship eliminated the pre-Lent Sundays but left the
Transfiguration on the last Sun. after Epiphany which now comes the Sun. before
Ash Wednesday.
>
> Dn. Sergius
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the
pre-Lent Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday
after Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.
> >
> > This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran
Clergyman and convert to the Orthodox Faith.
> >
> > Dale
> >  
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful
relation to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been
faced by others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the
last Sunday after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the
Transfiguration in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity
for preaching and teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on
this list will know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans
but suppressed among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Would any of you happen to know whether in the Swedish Lutheran Church, the
Transfiguration was observed on August 6th?



Subdeacon Alexis



To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
From: hobbitofny@...
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 07:02:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??





Dn Sergius

In the SBH. the proper use is may but does not say always.  As a I grew up, I do
not remember it used on the last Sunday.

I assume Dr. Reed pushed for August 6. Since after his death the LBW removed it.

The reality in Lutheranism is you have the liturgy with the prospers, but the
Minister is always at liberty to make changesand not follow it.

Dale

--- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:

From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...>
Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??
To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:23 AM



Dear Dale,

Not quite. The SBH says that the propers of the Transfiguration may always be
used on the last Sun. after Epiphany except when there is but one Sun. after
Epiphany.

The Common Service says that it is always to be used on the Last Sun. & there is
no 6 Aug. feast

Rome still has the Transfiguration on 6 Aug. but also reads the Gosepl of the
Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent.

Fr. Dn. Sergius

--- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
>
> Dn Sergius,
>
> The Service Book and Hymnal uses the propers of The Transfiguration of Our
Lord on the sixth Sunday after Epiphany. Most years have less Sundays after
Epiphany, the last Sunday is does not always use this set of propers. So it is a
rare year that had Transfiguration just before Septuagesima Sunday.
>
> My copies of earlier Lutheran litugical books are in storage and I could not
check those. I did check Frank Senn's Christian Liturgy, p343. The propers  were
used from Reformation times as the six Sunday after Epiphany.
>
> I do not know if any made Transfiguration always the last Sunday after
Epiphany before the LBW.
>
> Dale Dickerson
>
> --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@ ...>
> Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration- Chronologically. ..when did the event take
place??
> To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:40 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dale,
>
> Not quite. The usage chronology is as follows:
>
> 1. The August date was universal in the West until the late 15th century
> 2. For centuries the Roman & some north European lectionaries used the Gospel
of the Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent
> 3. Many of the 16th century Lutheran agendae put the Transfiguration on the
last Sun. after Epiphany as Stephen has said (see Common Service Book & Hymnal,
1918)
> 4. The Service Book & Hymnal of the Mid-Fifties ADDED the Augus 6th date
> 5. The Lutheran Book of Worship eliminated the pre-Lent Sundays but left the
Transfiguration on the last Sun. after Epiphany which now comes the Sun. before
Ash Wednesday.
>
> Dn. Sergius
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the
pre-Lent Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday
after Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.
> >
> > This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran
Clergyman and convert to the Orthodox Faith.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful
relation to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been
faced by others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the
last Sunday after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the
Transfiguration in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity
for preaching and teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on
this list will know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans
but suppressed among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think Dn Sergius is right about this. Your memories of growing up with 6
August would depend on when and where. The Common Service prescribed the last
Sunday after Epiphany. The book of 1958 has an outline calendar on pp. xi-xii;
here nothing is said about Transfiguration in Epiphanytide (where the Conversion
of St Paul is listed on 25 Jan., Presentation on 2 Feb., and St Matthias on 24
Feb.) Transfiguration is listed on 6 August, in Trinitytide. (This was the book
that introduced the reckoning of Sundays after Pentecost rather than after
Trinity, but it did so by placing the Pentecost reckoning in parentheses after
the Trinity reckoning. Trinitytide was a pre-Ref. northern European usage.) On
the other hand, in what we would think of as the Menaion section,
Transfiguration is placed on 6 August, but with the following rubric:

"The Propers for this Day shall be used on the Sixth Sunday after the Epiphany;
and may be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany, except when there is only
one Sunday after the Epiphany."

I expect that this rubric produced some head-scratching if anyone actually read
it. Transfiguration is appointed on 6 August, but *shall* (obligatory) be
celebrated on the 6th Sunday after Epiphany (which of course would not exist in
many years), and *may* (optional) be celebrated on the last Sunday after
Epiphany as long as there is more than one such Sunday? Huh? If there is a sixth
Sunday, would you celebrate it twice in the year (Sunday after Epiphany *and* 6
August)? How about a five-Sunday Epiphanytide?

In this case the Pastor would almost have to come up with some solution of his
own as to how to follow the rubric.

The elimination of pre-Lenten Sundays was advocated by a Presbyterian writer, A.
Allan McArthur, in _The Evolution of the Christian Year_ (London: SCM Press,
1953). His reasoning was that Lent is a preparation for Easter, and the
Pre-Lenten Sundays are therefore a preparation for a preparation--which
certainly makes them sound redundant. I don't know if McArthur's book influenced
the revisors of the Roman Catholic liturgical books after Vat. II, but the
pre-Lenten Sundays disappeared from the new Roman rite, and the Lutherans and
Anglicans followed like lemmings.

Stephen



--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@...> wrote:
>
> Dn Sergius
>  
> In the SBH. the proper use is may but does not say always.  As a I grew up, I
do not remember it used on the last Sunday.
>  
> I assume Dr. Reed pushed for August 6. Since after his death the LBW removed
it.
>  
> The reality in Lutheranism is you have the liturgy with the prospers, but the
Minister is always at liberty to make changesand not follow it.
>  
> Dale
>
> --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@...>
> Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration-Chronologically...when did the event take
place??
> To: ustav@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:23 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Dale,
>
> Not quite. The SBH says that the propers of the Transfiguration may always be
used on the last Sun. after Epiphany except when there is but one Sun. after
Epiphany.
>
> The Common Service says that it is always to be used on the Last Sun. & there
is no 6 Aug. feast
>
> Rome still has the Transfiguration on 6 Aug. but also reads the Gosepl of the
Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent.
>
> Fr. Dn. Sergius
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Dn Sergius,
> >  
> > The Service Book and Hymnal uses the propers of The Transfiguration of Our
Lord on the sixth Sunday after Epiphany. Most years have less Sundays after
Epiphany, the last Sunday is does not always use this set of propers. So it is a
rare year that had Transfiguration just before Septuagesima Sunday.
> >  
> > My copies of earlier Lutheran litugical books are in storage and I could not
check those. I did check Frank Senn's Christian Liturgy, p343. The propers  were
used from Reformation times as the six Sunday after Epiphany. 
> >  
> > I do not know if any made Transfiguration always the last Sunday after
Epiphany before the LBW.
> >  
> > Dale Dickerson
> >
> > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dn. Sergius Miller <srbmillerr@ ...>
> > Subject: [ustav] Re:Tranfiguration- Chronologically. ..when did the event
take place??
> > To: ustav@yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:40 AM
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Dale,
> >
> > Not quite. The usage chronology is as follows:
> >
> > 1. The August date was universal in the West until the late 15th century
> > 2. For centuries the Roman & some north European lectionaries used the
Gospel of the Transfiguration on the 2nd Sun. of Lent
> > 3. Many of the 16th century Lutheran agendae put the Transfiguration on the
last Sun. after Epiphany as Stephen has said (see Common Service Book & Hymnal,
1918)
> > 4. The Service Book & Hymnal of the Mid-Fifties ADDED the Augus 6th date
> > 5. The Lutheran Book of Worship eliminated the pre-Lent Sundays but left the
Transfiguration on the last Sun. after Epiphany which now comes the Sun. before
Ash Wednesday.
> >
> > Dn. Sergius
> >
> > --- In ustav@yahoogroups. com, Dale Dickerson <hobbitofny@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Until the 1970s, Lutherans held the feast in August. In the 1970s, the
pre-Lent Sundays were removed. Transfiguration was moved to the last Sunday
after Epiphany. It part of the "liturgical reforms" of the 1960 and 70s.
> > >
> > > This change is one of many things that lead me to resign as a Lutheran
Clergyman and convert to the Orthodox Faith.
> > >
> > > Dale
> > >  
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 8/6/09, stephen_r1937 <stephen_r1937@ ...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The desire to place the feast of the Transfiguration in some meaningful
relation to the Crucifixion, but not forty days before Great Friday, has been
faced by others. There is or was a Lutheran practice of celebrating it on the
last Sunday after Epiphany, thus just before pre-Lent; this also places the
Transfiguration in relation to the Epiphany, and presents a lot of opportunity
for preaching and teaching; perhaps--I don't recall, but I expect someone on
this list will know--it is a pre-Reformation custom preserved among Lutherans
but suppressed among Roman Catholics by the Tridentine standardization.
> > >
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On 7.8.2009 17:05, richard cooper wrote:
> Would any of you happen to know whether in the Swedish
> Lutheran Church, the Transfiguration was observed on August
> 6th?

According to the Swedish Wikipedia they celebrate it on the
fifteenth Sunday after Easter. (The same applies to the Finnish
Lutheran Church.)

See http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristi_f%C3%B6rklarings_dag .

- Jopi Harri

A few more observations on the Transfiguration in the West:\

In the medieval West, whether & when to celebrate the Transfiguration was a
matter of local option, and it fell on various dates in different localities.
After the fall of Constantinople,the Turks continued their advance into Europe
and for several years seemed invincible. On 22 July 1456, however,
Captain-General János Hunyady, Voivod of Transylvania and Regent of Hungary,
inflicted a crushing defeat on them at Belgrade.

News of this victory reached Rome on 6 August, and Pope Callistus III in his joy
decreed that henceforth the Transfiguration would be celebrated on that day; he
was of course consciously adopting the long-established Eastern date. When
liturgical usage in the West was standardized on the Roman model in reaction to
the Reformation, this comparatively new (in the West) date was introduced
wherever Papal authority held. Those churches that had renounced the papacy
while retaining the traditional church calendar were of course not affected by
any of this and continued whatever practice had been customary locally.

In the nineteenth century, after hundreds of years of erosion of the tradition,
a revival of sorts occurred, and the liturgical movement of the nineteenth &
twentieth centuries introduced into some Lutheran and Anglican practice usages
that had never existed in those parts of the world, but came from the
Counter-Reformation standardization of Catholic practice. The Roman sequence of
liturgical colors, totally unknown in northern Europe before the Reformation,
was introduced in this way. The date of 6 August for the Transfiguration is
another example. Standardizations of this sort have had great influence: an
earlier one in northern Europe, sponsored by Charlemagne, saw to it that the
Roman rite (with numerous adaptations) would prevail. And under the influence of
the great twelfth-century canonist and Patriarch of Antioch Theodore Balsamon
the Nomophylax, the Byzantine rite became the universal standard in the East for
us Seven-Council folks.

Stephen

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, Jopi Harri <jopi.harri@...> wrote:
>
> On 7.8.2009 17:05, richard cooper wrote:
> > Would any of you happen to know whether in the Swedish
> > Lutheran Church, the Transfiguration was observed on August
> > 6th?
>
> According to the Swedish Wikipedia they celebrate it on the
> fifteenth Sunday after Easter. (The same applies to the Finnish
> Lutheran Church.)
>
> See http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristi_f%C3%B6rklarings_dag .
>
> - Jopi Harri
>

(A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have access to
the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's _Lutheran
Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the Common
Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday after
the Epiphany, there is this rubric:

"The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the Transfiguration shall
be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each year, except when there is
only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and scriptural references that
follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This is either the rubric from
the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and shows that the rubric for 6
August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book & Hymnal is that of the Common
Service or as close as makes no difference. No propers are provided in SBH 1958
for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there is a rubric there too: "[pilcrow]
For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel, see The
Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August]. [pilcrow] The Propers for
this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The Epiphany, except when there
is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."

So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany, Transfiguration is
either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year? It strikes me as
odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about shifting the
Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János, where are
you?

Stephen

A couple of weeks ago, there was a discuss of the rubric "Middle" in Psalm 118
(the 17th Kathisma). Today I found time to look it up in the Typicon, Chapter
13. Below is my paraphrase of the instructions, and I would be grateful if those
more fluent in Slavonic could check it against the original.

Thanks,
David James

=================

The Typicon, in Chapter XIII, prescribes that the 17th Kathisma be divided into
two stases on all Saturdays where "Alleluia" is appointed [Meatfare Saturday,
the Saturday before Pentecost, and the lesser Saturdays of the Dead throughout
the year]. It is sung in Tone II. The refrain for the first stasis is, "Blessed
art Thou, O Lord, teach me Thy statutes." The refrain for the second is, "O
Savior, save me!" At the end of the first stasis, we do not say, "Glory…, Both
now…," but we sing instead verse 92, "For if my delight had not been in Thy
Law…" thrice. And the priest censes and performs the Litany for the Departed,
"Again and again, in peace let us pray to the Lord...," as found in the same
chapter. After the second stasis, verse 175, "My soul shall live and praise
Thee…," thrice. Then, "Blessed art Thou, O Lord…" and the evlogitaria for the
departed, in Tone V, "The choir of the saints hath found the fountain of life…,"
and the rest. After the evlogitaria, the priest says the aforementioned Litany
for the departed, and commemorates the reposed, but we say "Lord, have mercy"
[40]. Then the priest concludes with the prayer, "O God of spirits and of all
flesh…"

There are similar, but more detailed, instructions in the Octoechos before
the Friday evening services in Tone 1.   This indicates that the 40-fold
"Lord, have mercy" is sung during the prayer "O God of spirits and all
flesh" at both the Little Litanies for the Departed.

Archimandrite Kyril Jenner

http://www.mynachdy-sant-elias.org.uk/


----- Original Message -----
From: "David M. James" <Jamesdm49@...>
To: <ustav@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:39 PM
Subject: [ustav] Further to the rubric "Middle" in Ps 118



A couple of weeks ago, there was a discuss of the rubric "Middle" in Psalm
118 (the 17th Kathisma). Today I found time to look it up in the Typicon,
Chapter 13. Below is my paraphrase of the instructions, and I would be
grateful if those more fluent in Slavonic could check it against the
original.

Thanks,
David James

=================

The Typicon, in Chapter XIII, prescribes that the 17th Kathisma be divided
into two stases on all Saturdays where "Alleluia" is appointed [Meatfare
Saturday, the Saturday before Pentecost, and the lesser Saturdays of the
Dead throughout the year]. It is sung in Tone II. The refrain for the first
stasis is, "Blessed art Thou, O Lord, teach me Thy statutes." The refrain
for the second is, "O Savior, save me!" At the end of the first stasis, we
do not say, "Glory., Both now.," but we sing instead verse 92, "For if my
delight had not been in Thy Law." thrice. And the priest censes and performs
the Litany for the Departed, "Again and again, in peace let us pray to the
Lord...," as found in the same chapter. After the second stasis, verse 175,
"My soul shall live and praise Thee.," thrice. Then, "Blessed art Thou, O
Lord." and the evlogitaria for the departed, in Tone V, "The choir of the
saints hath found the fountain of life.," and the rest. After the
evlogitaria, the priest says the aforementioned Litany for the departed, and
commemorates the reposed, but we say "Lord, have mercy" [40]. Then the
priest concludes with the prayer, "O God of spirits and of all flesh."



------------------------------------


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Dear All,

Just posted a correction to
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18342081/Bortnyansky-35-Concertos-Part-1 .  Originally
I had No 26 in place of 3.  Now you will find 3.  Will correct the complete
volume soon.

Best,

Don





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Syephen,

Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.

The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.

DnS

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
>
> (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have access to
the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's _Lutheran
Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the Common
Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday after
the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
>
> "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the Transfiguration
shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each year, except when
there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and scriptural
references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This is either
the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and shows that
the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book & Hymnal is
that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No propers are
provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there is a rubric
there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle, Gradual, and
Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August]. [pilcrow]
The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The Epiphany,
except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
>
> So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany, Transfiguration is
either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year? It strikes me as
odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about shifting the
Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János, where are
you?
>
> Stephen
>

On Aug 9, David James wrote:

> A couple of weeks ago, there was a discuss of the rubric "Middle" in
> Psalm 118 (the 17th Kathisma). Today I found time to look it up in
> the Typicon, Chapter 13. Below is my paraphrase of the instructions,
> and I would be grateful if those more fluent in Slavonic could check
> it against the original.
>
> Thanks,
> David James
>
> =================
>
> The Typicon, in Chapter XIII, prescribes that the 17th Kathisma be
> divided into two stases on all Saturdays where "Alleluia" is
> appointed [Meatfare Saturday, the Saturday before Pentecost, and the
> lesser Saturdays of the Dead throughout the year]. It is sung in
> Tone II. The refrain for the first stasis is, "Blessed art Thou, O
> Lord, teach me Thy statutes." The refrain for the second is, "O
> Savior, save me!" At the end of the first stasis, we do not say,
> "Glory…, Both now…," but we sing instead verse 92, "For if my
> delight had not been in Thy Law…" thrice. And the priest censes and
> performs the Litany for the Departed, "Again and again, in peace let
> us pray to the Lord...," as found in the same chapter. After the
> second stasis, verse 175, "My soul shall live and praise Thee…,"
> thrice. Then, "Blessed art Thou, O Lord…" and the evlogitaria for
> the departed, in Tone V, "The choir of the saints hath found the
> fountain of life…," and the rest. After the evlogitaria, the priest
> says the aforementioned Litany for the departed, and commemorates
> the reposed, but we say "Lord, have mercy" [40]. Then the priest
> concludes with the prayer, "O God of spirits and of all flesh…"



Here is a literal translation of the passage from Chapter 13 of the
Typicon:

…we sing “[Blessed are] the blameless”, with the refrain: “Blessed art
Thou, O Lord,” in Tone 2. We divide it into two [stases]. In the
middle after the first stasis, we do not say, “Glory…Both now…,” but
we sing at the end: “If Thy law had not been…,” thrice. And the priest
says the litany for those fallen asleep. “Again we pray for the repose
of the souls of the servants of God who have fallen asleep, NN…”
Choir: “Lord, have mercy,” once. “That the Lord God would order their
souls…” Choir: “Lord, have mercy,” once. “The mercy of God, and the
kingdom of heaven…” Choir: “Grant [this], O Lord.” Deacon: “Let us
pray to the Lord.” Priest, “O God of spirits and of all flesh…” And we
say, “Lord, have mercy,” forty [times]. Exclamation, “For Thou art the
resurrection…” Choir: “Amen.” Then we sing the other stasis, “I am
Thine…” Refrain, “O Savior, save me.” At the end: “My soul shall
live…,” thrice. Then, “Blessed art Thou, O Lord.” And we sing the
troparia for the reposed: “The choir of the saints hath found the
fountain…,” and the rest. And after them, the priest says the
aforementioned litany for the reposed; and he commemorates those who
have fallen asleep. And we say, “Lord, have mercy,” 40 [times] until
the priest has concluded the prayer: “O God of spirits…”

Daniel Olson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dn Sergius,

Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or what?

Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history of the
celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can come up
with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the American of
1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect that England
did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I don't
know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European ,
where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.

Stephen


--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
>
> Syephen,
>
> Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
>
> The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.
>
> DnS
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> >
> > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have access
to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's _Lutheran
Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the Common
Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday after
the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
> >
> > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the Transfiguration
shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each year, except when
there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and scriptural
references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This is either
the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and shows that
the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book & Hymnal is
that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No propers are
provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there is a rubric
there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle, Gradual, and
Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August]. [pilcrow]
The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The Epiphany,
except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
> >
> > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany, Transfiguration
is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year? It strikes me as
odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about shifting the
Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János, where are
you?
> >
> > Stephen
> >
>

Sear Stephen,

The LBW has just previous to Ash Wednesday, The Transfiguration of the Lord, the
Last Sunday afyer Epiphany.  Remember there was no pre-Lent. The LW has the
same.  Of course, the Missouri services never had Aug. 6.

The Sarum books did have the 6 Aug.  No Book of Common Prayer had 6 Aug. until
the American Book of 1892.  The group of Prayer Books of the 1920s all added it
to the calendar, oops, kalendar.  No Prayer Book had a "last Sun. after" until
the American 1979.

DnS


--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@...> wrote:
>
> Dn Sergius,
>
> Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or
what?
>
> Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history of
the celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can come
up with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the American of
1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect that England
did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I don't
know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European ,
where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.
>
> Stephen
>
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
> >
> > Syephen,
> >
> > Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
> >
> > The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.
> >
> > DnS
> >
> > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> > >
> > > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have
access to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's
_Lutheran Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the
Common Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday
after the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
> > >
> > > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the Transfiguration
shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each year, except when
there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and scriptural
references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This is either
the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and shows that
the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book & Hymnal is
that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No propers are
provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there is a rubric
there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle, Gradual, and
Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August]. [pilcrow]
The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The Epiphany,
except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
> > >
> > > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany, Transfiguration
is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year? It strikes me as
odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about shifting the
Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János, where are
you?
> > >
> > > Stephen
> > >
> >
>

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...> >

> The Sarum books did have the 6 Aug.

I should have noted that this feast did not find its way into the Sarum books
until the 16th century.  Shortly before the Reformation in England the Sarum
Breviary but not the Missal was imposed on the Province of Canterbury.  I doubt
that that was complete by 1548.

Dn. Sergius






>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> >
> > Dn Sergius,
> >
> > Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or
what?
> >
> > Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history of
the celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can come
up with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the American of
1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect that England
did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I don't
know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European ,
where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Syephen,
> > >
> > > Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
> > >
> > > The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.
> > >
> > > DnS
> > >
> > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have
access to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's
_Lutheran Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the
Common Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday
after the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
> > > >
> > > > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the
Transfiguration shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each
year, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and
scriptural references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This
is either the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and
shows that the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book &
Hymnal is that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No
propers are provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there
is a rubric there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle,
Gradual, and Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August].
[pilcrow] The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The
Epiphany, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
> > > >
> > > > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany,
Transfiguration is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year?
It strikes me as odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about
shifting the Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János,
where are you?
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Thank you, Dn Sergius. The West in general seems not to know just what to do
with the Transfiguration. It's quite an involved history. According to the
Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913, before the decree of 1456 was implemented, while
a number of dioceses and religious orders celebrated the feast on 6 August,
various other dates were observed locally: 27 July in Gaul & England, 17 March
at Meissen, and 3 September at Halberstadt are specifically mentioned. And Jopi
tells us that in Sweden and Finland it is the fifteenth Sunday after Easter. If
we add the Second Sunday in Lent and the Last after Epiphany, we have a half
dozen already, and there must be more.

Stephen


--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> >
>
> > The Sarum books did have the 6 Aug.
>
> I should have noted that this feast did not find its way into the Sarum books
until the 16th century.  Shortly before the Reformation in England the Sarum
Breviary but not the Missal was imposed on the Province of Canterbury.  I doubt
that that was complete by 1548.
>
> Dn. Sergius
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dn Sergius,
> > >
> > > Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or
what?
> > >
> > > Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history
of the celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can
come up with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the
American of 1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect
that England did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I
don't know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European
, where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.
> > >
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Syephen,
> > > >
> > > > Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
> > > >
> > > > The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug.
celebration.
> > > >
> > > > DnS
> > > >
> > > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have
access to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's
_Lutheran Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the
Common Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday
after the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
> > > > >
> > > > > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the
Transfiguration shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each
year, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and
scriptural references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This
is either the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and
shows that the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book &
Hymnal is that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No
propers are provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there
is a rubric there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle,
Gradual, and Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August].
[pilcrow] The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The
Epiphany, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
> > > > >
> > > > > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany,
Transfiguration is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year?
It strikes me as odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about
shifting the Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János,
where are you?
> > > > >
> > > > > Stephen
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Dear Dn Sergius,

The date of 6th August for the Transfiguration appears in the 1559 Book of
Common Prayer
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/1559/Kalendar_1559.htm#Almanac.

In XC,

Dn Philip

--- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@...> wrote:
>
> Sear Stephen,
>
> The LBW has just previous to Ash Wednesday, The Transfiguration of the Lord,
the Last Sunday afyer Epiphany.  Remember there was no pre-Lent. The LW has the
same.  Of course, the Missouri services never had Aug. 6.
>
> The Sarum books did have the 6 Aug.  No Book of Common Prayer had 6 Aug. until
the American Book of 1892.  The group of Prayer Books of the 1920s all added it
to the calendar, oops, kalendar.  No Prayer Book had a "last Sun. after" until
the American 1979.
>
> DnS
>
>
> --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> >
> > Dn Sergius,
> >
> > Did they revert to last-Sunday-after-Epiphany-unless-there-is-only-one, or
what?
> >
> > Maybe someone with better library resources can tell us about the history of
the celebration of Transfiguration in the Book of Common Prayer. All I can come
up with is the Canadian BCP of of 1959 (still "tradutional") and the American of
1977 (modernized), both of which have the Aug. 6th date. I expect that England
did not have 6 August yet when Henry VIII broke with Rome, but I don't
know--this would be a parallel case of a development in northern European ,
where there was no uniform practice in the 16th century.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "Dn. Sergius Miller" <srbmillerr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Syephen,
> > >
> > > Yes, that is the Common Service rubric.
> > >
> > > The LBW of 1978 & the Missouri LW both eliminated the 6 Aug. celebration.
> > >
> > > DnS
> > >
> > > --- In ustav@yahoogroups.com, "stephen_r1937" <stephen_r1937@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > (A further note on Transfiguration among the Lutherans) I don't have
access to the Common Service, but I am now looking at the Missouri Synod's
_Lutheran Hymnal_ of 1941, the liturgical part of which is a knock-off of the
Common Service. Nothing at all is prescribed for 6 August. On the Sixth Sunday
after the Epiphany, there is this rubric:
> > > >
> > > > "The Introit, Collect Epistle, Gradual, and Gospel for the
Transfiguration shall be used on the last Sunday after the Epiphany in each
year, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany." The texts and
scriptural references that follow are indeed those of the Transfiguration. This
is either the rubric from the Common Service verbatim or a revision of it, and
shows that the rubric for 6 August that I quoted from the 1958 Service Book &
Hymnal is that of the Common Service or as close as makes no difference. No
propers are provided in SBH 1958 for the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany, but there
is a rubric there too: "[pilcrow] For the Introit, Collect, Lesson, Epistle,
Gradual, and Gospel, see The Transfiguration of Our Lord, p. 111 [for 6 August].
[pilcrow] The Propers for this Sunday may be used on the Last Sunday after The
Epiphany, except when there is only one Sunday after the Epiphany."
> > > >
> > > > So on years when there are six Sundays after the Epiphany,
Transfiguration is either omitted on 6 August or celebrated twice in the year?
It strikes me as odd, but no doubt comes from a certain diffidence about
shifting the Transfiguration from its accustomed day to 6 August. Hunyady János,
where are you?
> > > >
> > > > Stephen
> > > >
> > >
> >
>